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Qantas Drops Origin Pacific  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6141 times:
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Qantas and Origin Pacific will end their code sharing agreement in March this year. Qantas passengers have flowen some Origin Pacific Routes. Qantas has also helped Origin Pacific expand and has also helped fund Origin Pacific's fleet expansion.
"Wilson said Origin Pacific were told by Qantas that they would be given 12 months notice if Qantas wanted to end the code sharing, but this had not occured".
Origin's new focus would be on feeding international airlines that already came to New Zealand, many of which were keen to develop relationships.
A new relationship between Origin Pacific and an international airline would be announced today.

Source http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/businessstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3544869&thesection=business&thesubsection=transport&thesecondsubsection=aviation

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

This could be bad news for Origin - word has been going around for some time now that they may not be a viable operation in the long run...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5882 times:
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VirginFlyer
Origin will announce soon who they will team up with. Pacific Blue and Origin are having heavy talks about code sharing. There is also talks with KLM and Malaysia Airlines


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5861 times:
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Just read that Origin have signed a deal with KLM who they code share with Malaysia Airlines on flights to New Zealand

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

I think that this is really just the beginning of Qantas' exit strategy from the NZ domestic market. They have a pretty pitiful presence at the mo, with only 3 routes and not the best of frequencies or reliability (I've had 3 flights cancelled in a 2 month period because of lack of passengers).

Once Pacific Blue start domestic ops on the prime routes, expect to see an agreement with Origin Pacific. Then I suspect Qantas will just have to interline with Air New Zealand flights, as Air NZ has to do with QF flights for transferring pax onto domestic Oz routes.


User currently offlineAirNewZealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

Agree with VirginFlyer,
Word has it, staf have not been paid in a while, and the business is going to go belly flop soon.

Cheers
Mike


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Not sure it's as simple as that Aerokiwi.

1. Jetconnect don't just fly QF NZ domestic, but QF 737's Trans Tasman as well. If they have to absorb those back into QF cost structure, then they'll be in poor shape to compete on the Tasman. What do you think of the economics of just having Jetconnect as a Trans Tasman operator?

2. The absence of Star Alliance within Australia is a problem for UA/NZ/SQ. I wonder whether the absence of One World within NZ wouldn't be an even bigger headache for QF.

3. If neither One World not Star Alliance could treat Austalasia as one market, isn't there a big risk of handing Virgin Blue/Pacific Blue a huge gift?

I'm gold on both QF and NZ so I'm a neutral and would just like to know!


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

Just looked on the QF website. They are showing WLG-CHC as Origin codeshare ATR's and Jetstreams until 31-10-04. From november on they are showing the flights as all being 737-300's.

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5658 times:



QANTAS Airways to Add New New Zealand Routes

SYDNEY, Jan 22 Asia Pulse - Qantas Airways Ltd is to add two new routes to its New Zealand domestic network.

Qantas Airlines New Zealand and Pacific regional general manager Allan Williams announced today that the airline would begin flying Boeing 737s between Christchurch and Rotorua and Christchurch and Wellington from April 1.

Qantas has been operating jet services between Auckland and Wellington and Auckland and Christchurch since establishing its New Zealand domestic operations in April 2001.

"We are now operating a fleet of five Boeing 737s and have progressively added services and destinations since then, including Christchurch-Queenstown in September last year and Auckland-Queenstown non-stop in October," Mr Williams said.

"Our new Christchurch-Rotorua services will be part of a same plane through service linking Queenstown and Rotorua via Christchurch."

He said the routes would appeal to domestic travellers as well as international visitors flying with Qantas into New Zealand.

From April 1, Qantas will operate 300 domestic flights each week, including 56 return services between Auckland and Christchurch and 45 between Auckland and Wellington.

Qantas is introducing the new services following a decision to no longer lease aircraft from, or codeshare, with New Zealand regional carrier Origin Pacific.

==========================================



User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Perhaps this the start of QF realising that the alliance will not work with NZ and will instead now go all out for the kill with NZ, and now go head for head rather than be closely alligned. Does anyone have load / pax statistics for the Jet Connect operation, or it's domestic operation?

User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3179 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

I think both QF and NZ have a "better the devil you know" strategy and will both be doing their darndest to make like difficult for that team of Virgins.
Quite an experienced team of virgins now though.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Despite it's lower cost base than QF's domestic Oz operations, JetConnect still doesn't make money. How long will that be sustainable? The trans Tasman ops are probably more profitable (or lose less money than QFs) so will likely be kept. But with 3 airlines on domestic routes, it just wont be sustainable. One of those carriers is government owned, doing rather nicely now and has the strong customer base. The other two are offshoots of Australian airlines, one using NZ as a base to launch its international ops, the other providing an irregular and continually unprofitable service on just 3 routes it doesn't really need.

I don't think the loss of NZ doemstic will be causing any headaches for oneworld carriers. QF flys to all the major cities, so it wont make a huge amount of diff. In fact, I would go so far as to say it wouldn't impact upon their international uplift at all.


User currently offlineThadocta From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5425 times:

"2. The absence of Star Alliance within Australia is a problem for UA/NZ/SQ. I wonder whether the absence of One World within NZ wouldn't be an even bigger headache for QF.'

I don't think so. Australia is a much bigger market than NZ will ever be, and not having an Evil Empire (aka Star Alliance) feed in Australia hurts far more carriers - UA, NZ, TG, SQ, et al - than not having a Forces of Goodness and Righteousness (aka oneworld) feed in NZ ever will.

Dave


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

I doubt very much that Qantas will leave the New Zealand market. They may not have a great schedule, but they sure took a lot of market share away from ANZ. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure to have heard Dixon say during a news conference that loads in the NZ Domestic market are positive, and that there was no way of them leaving NZ.
And lets face it (no offence to anyone) if QF where to flex its muscle just a little, Air NZ would find it very difficult to compete with the $$ QF has and the 'low-cost' model of Virgin.
It may be a government backed airline, but the government won't be shovelling money to ANZ forever.
This is why, eventually in the long run (as stated by many financial analyst) QF and ANZ will merge!!
I also doubt very much that Jetconnect is bleeding money, or not making any as pointed out.
With all the cost cutting that has taken place in QF, I am sure Dixon would not operate something just to have a loss at the bottom line.
A few months ago he said that 'all Qantas operations where back in making money'



User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Aerokiwi

I don't know enough about this to be dogmatic, but I know a good few people like me who do NZ domestic trips at least twice a week when not doing our 3-4 time a year longhauls. I also do WLG-SYD-WLG every second Monday.

At present I am Oneworld, but if I couldn't get FF points for my domestic trips on the same card as international, then I'd be back with Star Alliance in no time.

PS - I left Star in the first place in order to access BA sleeper beds SYD-LHR. That is an advantage that will go with NZ's $20 million 744 cabin refit, plus the option of SQ.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5130 times:
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QF's NZ domestic flights are not making any money.

User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

I read an item a few years back about Origin Pacific and the CEO said that they were going to expand nice and slow but with Tasman Pacific going bust they were forced to expand faster than expected.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5186 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

I don't think QFNZ is loosing money at all...

Dixon made a statement a few months back claiming all business' were now making progit. Ie catering, domestic, international. I would assume this includes Jetconnect as its a seperate bsuiness.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5015 times:
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Qantas (Jetconnect) is not making any money on their kiwi routes. The person who told me is a very reliable source

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Fri "Melbourne Age"

Qantas outflanks Pacific Blue on NZ routes
By Scott Rochfort
Sydney
January 23, 2004

The likelihood of a long airline war across the Tasman grew yesterday after Qantas announced the expansion of its New Zealand domestic network, just one week out from Pacific Blue's first scheduled trans-Tasman flight.

Sending its most combative message yet to the Virgin offshoot, Qantas said it planned to commence flights from Wellington and Rotorua into Pacific Blue's home base of Christchurch on April 1.

But, as Pacific Blue is not expected to commence domestic flights in NZ until late 2004, analysts said it was Air New Zealand that stood to lose the most from the competition.

As it is, Pacific Blue is cutting it thin in gaining the necessary permission to fly into New Zealand, as the airline has yet to obtain a NZ Air Operators Certificate. It is scheduled to make its first flight between Brisbane and Christchurch next Thursday.

However, Virgin's David Huttner said he was confident the airline would get the necessary approval after its first "proving flight" early next week.

By late March, Pacific Blue expects to be flying trans-Tasman flights from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Cairns, Hobart, Launceston, Townsville and Perth into either Christchurch and/or Wellington.

Qantas is expected to unveil the route structure for its low-cost offshoot, JetStar, within days, before the airline's first tickets go on sale via the internet in mid-February.

With the airline scheduled to start operations in May with a fleet of 14 Boeing 717s and three Airbus 320s, analysts expect JetStar to follow the same route structure as Qantas's existing fleet of B717s before it builds up its fleet of A320s.

Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation managing director Peter Harbison said: "What we're really looking at is Impulse 3, if the existing Impulse in Qantas was Impulse 2 with another 10 seats.

"So, there are a whole lot of routes already where Impulse has been operating and you can assume that will continue but (with) more aggressive pricing."

Qantas's B717 fleet currently services Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Newcastle, Launceston, the Gold Coast, Cairns, Maroochydore, Mackay, Hamilton Island, Rockhampton and Mount Isa.

Given the healthy growth outlook for the domestic aviation market, UBS analyst Steve Wood said now was the ideal time for JetStar to start operations.

"Qantas is running 80 per cent load factors and Virgin is running slightly above that; the market will easily absorb the JetStar capacity," he said.

Qantas shares hit a three-month high of $3.62 yesterday, before closing 2¢ higher at $3.60.

===========================================



User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12088 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4962 times:
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Air NZ operate 3150+ flights each week in New Zealand and Qantas (Jetconnect) will operate from 1st April 300 flights each week. That is a huge difference of 2850+ flights each week. Air New Zealand's Express Class service is proving very popular and Air NZ's flights are leaving nearly all the time full and Qantas (Jetconnect) are not doing well. Maybe Kiwis like to fly Kiwi Airlines so maybe that is why Qantas flights are nearly empty. Everytime I have been at an Airport that Jetconnects B733s depart from I have seen on average about 60 passengers on the flights. Jetconnects WLG flights don't have much passengers on them. What Jetconnect needs is smaller Jets like the B717 for Domestic and B733s for Transtasmin flights. Air NZ will not be the biggest looser from the increased competition because Air NZ operates 2850+ more flights each week then Jetconnect. Jetconnect will because their NZ domestic operations are not making any profits. Last year when I was in Wellington I was talking to a Jetconnect flight attendent and I asked him how well are Qantas's NZ operations going and he said that they were not good.

User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3182 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

If AirNZ have 3150 flights a week compared to the 300 Qantas Jetconnect isn't AirNZ got more to loose.

I wonder whether Qantas will ever decide to send the 717s over to NZ.

They will be a smaller plane. A 737-300 between Wellington and Christchurch to me seems to be a bit of an overkill.

I am flying Origin Pacific next week. It will be interesting to see how full the flight is and what the service is like.





Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Jetconnect only operates the one type of aircraft the 737-300 (unless I have missed the other types) where AirNZ operates most types in its fleet on domestic flights 744, 763, A320, 733, ATR, Saab 340 and Beech 1900D so in terms of the number of flights each week of course Jetconnect can't cut it with AirNZ. (someone can correct me if the 762 does operate domestic flights)
I wonder how many of 3150+ flights flown by AirNZ are flown by 737s.
Also a source of mine told me that Jetconnect is making a more money now than before because of the flights to Australia from Wellington and Christchurch.


User currently offlineBeno From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 428 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

777ER,

I would be very surprised if ANZ operate 3150 flights per week within NZ domestic routes.

Considering the QF group (Including QLink/AO/Jetconnect) operate around 5800 flights a week.


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4845 times:

NZ operates around 450 domestic flights per day.


-
25 Wirraway : TBCIDG wrote: Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure to have heard Dixon say during a news conference that loads in the NZ Domestic m
26 QANTASpower : You kiwis can gloat all you like about QF's NZ operations losing money ... the fact is it is just a matter of time before your airline becomes a Qanta
27 Post contains links ANstar : Again, as Dixon previously said all operations are now making money. I don't think he could make that statement if Jetconnect was loosing $$$ as that
28 Rongotai : I have averaged over 100 New Zealand domestic flights a year for the past 25 years. A couple of years ago I shifted from NZ to QF as first choice main
29 Beno : Jetconnect are getting rid of the ex AN 733s and replacing them with more QF 733s very soon. QF still have 9 733s operating in OZ most of those will b
30 Aussie747 : Long term if the QF Jet connect runs rell and is going head to head with ANZ and Virgin, what are the chances QF will replace it's 733's with 738's on
31 Post contains images 777ER : the fact is it is just a matter of time before your airline becomes a Qantas subsidiary. No way would any NZ Government let Qantas take over Air NZ. T
32 VirginFlyer : 777ER - I think you need to make a better argument here than "This will never happen because New Zealand would no longer have a national carrier and t
33 Rongotai : I both share 777ER's emotions and VirginFlyer's reality. As indicated earlier I run a high airline user NZ business that does 50% of its work overseas
34 TBCITDG : There are obvious emotions that cloud some judgment here in this "debate". But lets face the facts. The New Zealand government will not always bail ou
35 777ER : Air NZ could loose market share on the main routes eg AKL-WLG, WLG-CHC, CHC-AKL and ZQN-AKL which have the B733s operating them. But Air NZ will keep
36 Aerokiwi : Interesting that suddenly Air NZ needs "bailing out". Funny, I recall a $200 million plus profit in the last year. Yes, yes, QF were farting around on
37 QANTASpower : What you people have to realise is that Pacific Blue will quickly build up a trans tasman schedule and snare say 20-30% of the market. What will happe
38 TBCITDG : Things may look OK for ANZ at the moment, but not only will Pacific Blue take market share away from them but also Emirates will take a chunk of busin
39 Rongotai : While I actually agree that eventually there will probably be a QF/NZ tie up of some kind, there are problems here that haven't been stated yet in thi
40 Aerokiwi : TBCITDG - I agree, Qantas don't want to own 100% of Air NZ. Instead, they want to pay for 22.5% of it and take a 50% level of control. Sound like a co
41 AirNewZealand : Hey dudes, QF Jetconnest is making money on NZ routes....This is a fact (I am a KIWI)... QF current load factor is 82% on NZ routes....they have aroun
42 Aerokiwi : Some kind of sources please. Flight crew simply don't count for diddle when it comes to information on the financial state of an airline. And please n
43 777ER : AirNewZealand but have you taken a recent flight with them? They are not the warmest welcome no more! Fact, they are very dissapointing, especially si
44 TBCITDG : 777ER: One only needs to look at some of the other web sites around (skyt----.com) to know that the general public is not at all impresed. The costcut
45 Aerokiwi : Yes but Air NZ admitted its mistake over serving premium pax meals in boxex across the Tasman. They changed back to the former service just a few week
46 Rongotai : This is the problem with the personal anecdote approach to these questions (And I am as bad as the next person at this). Although I choose QF first at
47 Aussie747 : To 777ER, Some services between SYD-CHC are operated by the 733's Jet connect fleet, more recently they have shifted away from this, and have begun to
48 AirNewZealand : Here we go... 1. Yes you are correct Aussie747, but this is only because it is high season. Come March, the Jetconnect flights will start back up agai
49 Post contains images TG992 : You had one or two bad flights, so that means the Air NZ crew are 'no longer what they used to be?' I wonder if the fact JetConnect has suddenly becom
50 AirNewZealand : TG992, No i am not going to the QF interviews... Got a job at the airport. In our country 18 is considered an adult... Yes it was two flights, and ima
51 Post contains images TG992 : . . . .
52 Sydscott : I think this is a great move for Qantas principally because it is a recognition of a business reality. The main motive for having a service within Ne
53 ZK-NBT : Jet Connect have never flown CHC-SYD and I doubt that they will for the forseeable future! QF use 763's and a 743 on the SYD-CHC run!
54 Cchan : So how well is Origin Pacific doing at present. I've been on a few Origin Pacific flights recently, they seem never full.
55 Aussie747 : To all and Sundry, Jet connect flights Sydney to Christchurch were stopped on 15 November 2003. As of current you will see the following QF 45/46 SYD/
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