Beltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11130 times:
I think it's a mistake for them. December stats show that JetBlue's load factors are slipping down to mere mortal levels and they are only a percentage point or so ahead of Spirit Airlines (which ranked second). They have a good little monopoly at JFK, and I would bet that at least 80% of the seats they sell at LGA will come at the expense of their loads at JFK (unless they are somehow gate-constrained at JFK).
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17298 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11124 times:
They'll get the slots, but they will not be able to build a huge network out of LGA because other airlines will fight them from getting too many slots. The only way JetBlue would be able to grow out of LGA would be if they buy the US Airways Shuttle. JetBlue got a sweetheart deal in regards to JFK slots, but will not get as lucky @ LGA without paying for the slots.
ONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 576 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11058 times:
We'll get the slots. They have already told us that the LGA's schedules will be out later this spring.
"These exemptions, once finalized into an approved schedule with the FAA, will enable us to offer daily departures from LaGuardia (LGA) to some of our strongest markets, such as those in the Sunshine State of Florida."
"The operation we plan to inaugurate this spring is not intended to, nor will it ever, replace our base of operations at JFK. In New York, JFK is our home and will continue to grow as such. LGA, for now, will simply be limited to a few key destinations designed to alleviate some of the incredible demand on our JFK service while we prepare to build a replacement for Terminal 6."
Beltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11049 times:
Maybe they already have a deal (not announced) on the Shuttle and they are looking for the other slots to get better use of the airport. Given that the shuttle at LGA is not with the regular gates, that's not a great plan.
It will be interesting, but I still think it's a mistake.
Jeff G From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 431 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11033 times:
Bad news for Song. Also bad for US Airways.
Anyway, LGA slots go away in three years. I think this is just establishing a toehold for when the slot controls lift. This also seems a way to hedge their bets in case the new JFK terminal gets bogged down and they flat run out of space there.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31811 posts, RR: 72 Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11002 times:
This is not a surprise. jetBlue has realized that it is key to serving multiple airports in major markets. They have already confirmed they are seriously considering adding service to Miami/MIA. South Florida is thier second largest customer base outside of New York City, and even though LGA/MIA may be more delayed prone, offering a handful of flights out of those markets allows them to capture more customers, such as those who don't want to deal with the hasssle of driving all the way to LGA/MIA.
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3170 posts, RR: 20 Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10958 times:
Good news for us New Jersians who dont always like to drive to JFK for jetBlue!!
Here is my question:
With the LGA on-time factor being as disastrous as it is, why would jetBlue want to subject themselves to that? Will they schedule at off-peak times, pad their flight schedule to accomodate for the typical LGA daily traffic jams, or possibly just put up with the commotion?
I dont doubt that jetBlue will be successful (I wish it on them- they are my favorite airline!) but a lot of people dread LGA and who knows if even jetBlue can attract the attention they are looking for... Then again, at this point, its not THAT many seats to fill.
ScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10944 times:
What? When? Were or what?
Can you anyone tell me about jetBlue why want go to LGA? Is that make extra slots into LGA and those are alot of the flight schedules with the airlines. Is that might will able go to FLL or something else with their city.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31811 posts, RR: 72 Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10905 times:
So let the speculation on destinations begin, where will they fly if they get them?
LGA-FLL,LGA-LGB are my first 2 guess's!
No LGA-LGB unless they want to a Saturday-only service, since LGB is way outside the permiter. FLL-LGA is a given, probably 4 dailies. I could then see 2 each to MCO, TPA, and PBI. Nobody flies LGA-RSW, however, so they might give that shot as well.
Kohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10890 times:
The real question I have is.. is jetBlue doing this because they want to, or are they doing it because they HAVE to?
Now if they can just hold off on answering that question until some afternoon in May when departure taxi times are pushing 4 hours and flow control is crushing any hope of running inbound flights until the middle of the night...
ScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10834 times:
Are you sure about these flight to FLL, MCO, TPA & PBI with the florida flight, right? I need with your answer to me about jetBlue going to LGA and why? Is that very busiest airport with overcrowded into their terminal. If I hear get anything with the news from jetBlue. Thanks!
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3395 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10753 times:
I wouldn't bet on seeing any transcons from LGA. Thier 7000 ft runways will undoubtedly limit the range of the A320 at full capacity. Coming from someone who works at an airport with short runways, take it from me!
Greg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10715 times:
Good luck to Jet Blue..they are starting to stir the big boys..which is never a good idea.
BTW..not everybody 'loves' B6---I found them to be extraordinarily ordinary the few (three) times I flew them. Our sister firm in New York calls them DeathBlue (I have no idea why since they've never had an accident...).
I'm not sure they need LGA...I'd think the assets could be placed better.
Jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2968 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10709 times:
LGA actually has a lack of Florida flights since US closed up there MetroJet ops. Make no mistake, this also has a lot to do with the ongoing dogfight with AA. Always remember that AA cancelled their JFK-MCO flight because of B6. I can't wait to see what they do when B6 pulls into their turf at LGA.
As for speculation:
LGA-MIA--just to spite AA
LGA-SJU--Sat only service to compete with the ailing US Airways on the only nonstop flight from LGA.
Jeffie813 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10703 times:
i agree with MAH - 4 to FLL, and 2 each to PBI, TPA, and MCO. they are giving song a huge run for their money. at PBI, B6 adding their additional flights to JFK (peaking out at 14/day last month), they virtually eliminated song's passenger traffic to JFK. LGA-PBI is still performing well for AA and song, but you can bet that B6 has their eye on those passengers as well.
Goingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10659 times:
I guess the beauty of LGA is that if JetBlue doesn't do great on a route and pulls the route, they can always say that the route was only intended to "hold the slots" until something better could be found.
I think it's going to hurt the O&D on their JFK-Florida runs and the overall load factors will drop - which won't be music to Wall Streets ears. I don't think it's particularly wise to operate flights between the same cities out of two different airports.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31811 posts, RR: 72 Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10616 times:
I dont know if jetBlue would want to do LGA-MIA... even though MIA is a possibility, I doubt jetBlue would try two new "neighboring territories" at the same time..
They'd love to. They have already said they wanted to fly to LaGuardia and Miami. They have already applied for LaGuardia slots. It is only a matter of time before they start flying to Miami. It is no longer "if", IMO.
jetBlue is doing great to Ft. Lauderdale, and American is doing just fine to Miami... and even though its all about competition, why pour oil on the fire- especially in a new territory?
MIA and FLL serve the same market. Why do you think AA flies FLL-LGA/LAX/CCS/SDQ/PAP/RDU/BOS/NAS in addition to the hub flights? American is now the second largest carrier at FLL, surpassing Southwest last month. For example, when jetBlue started FLL-LGB, AA quickly went up to four daily FLL-LAX flights.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16529 posts, RR: 48 Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10572 times:
"No LGA-LGB unless they want to a Saturday-only service, since LGB is way outside the permiter. FLL-LGA is a given, probably 4 dailies. I could then see 2 each to MCO, TPA, and PBI. Nobody flies LGA-RSW, however, so they might give that shot as well. "
Are you sure 10 slots = 10 roundtrips? At DCA 10 slots = 5 roundtrips...ie AQ applied for 4 slots to operate two SNA-DCA roundtrips.
E pur si muove -Galileo
25 ScottysAir: I think so. This is extra slot into LGA & DCA, too. This is exactly they wants go to LGA and why? I am not sure when will begin that flight in/out of
26 As739x: MAH, thanks I forgot about the perimeter S**t...! ASSFO
27 Jmacias34: Here is something to consider. Somebody above posted that if B6 opened up shop at LGA that passenger levels at JFK would drop. Would B6 open up cities
28 Flairport: well..I hope they do LGA and FLL and speed up on it! I need a very low fare and need it before memorial day! NOTE...this is just speculation, i do not
29 RJpieces: WHY?WHY?WHY? I think that would be a total waste as most people who might use this LGA service could just as easily fly from JFK. Not to mention LGA's
30 ScottysAir: Hey Flairport, Where did you get with these flight schedules in/out of LGA and somebody please tell me what is going on for jetBlue. How ever did you
31 Flairport: Scottysair, i clearly stated in my post: NOTE...this is just speculation, i do not work for jetblue (and they have not made a schedule, anyway, so eve
32 OttoPylit: I guess no one saw this section of the press release? "This press release contains statements of a forward-looking nature which represent our manageme
33 Flairport: he said that flying from JFK was the only airport that B6 preferred to fly from because the area was screaming for a hometown airline. Times have chan
34 JetBluefan1: what about DEN...compete with F9 and take care of a spare plane. Neelman purposely doesn't compete with Frontier. Therefore, he will not do DEN-LGA. H
35 ScottysAir: It would not steal with the passengers on their flight. I still thinking about jetBlue will added with the destination city out of LGA soon and we'll
36 Luv2fly: B6 will do fine from LGA, considering you have DL/Song, AA and US all bleeding money like stuck pigs why would you not go there. In business always ta
37 ATA767: Actually. Spirit will hurt big time on the LGA-FLL route. The really can not compete unless they really lower their price and then some.
38 MAH4546: The really can not compete unless they really lower their price and then some. They already have dirt cheap fares and a very popular premium economy c
39 Goingboeing: mah4546...yeah, but...do they have TV SETS on board???? If they lack TV, how can they ever expect to compete on price alone?
40 Brons2: mah4546...yeah, but...do they have TV SETS on board???? If they lack TV, how can they ever expect to compete on price alone? LOL!!!!! Sure didn't help
41 FoxBravo: OttoPylit, I guess it appears that management does not have much personal faith in their employees. I found it hilarious when I read about the LGA slo
42 ScottysAir: It didn't not help with ATL either. It was discontinues that both flight LGB & OAK. Maybe someday into the future could be returns to ATL again. Who k
43 FLIBOYZ: jetblue jetblue......YAWN......10 slots...Kind of greedy right off the bat huh.....anyway...YAWN....and YES, I don't care for them. Nothing to discuss
44 B6FA4ever: WOW...i'm actually really surprised about this news. I've heard many passengers ask if we will ever fly to LGA. But the whole problem w/ that (as stat
45 RJpieces: I still say EWR is a better choice. It caters to the same metropolis but for passengers for whom LGA/JFK is out of the way. If a pax can travel to LGA
46 B6FA4ever: if EWR was a possibility...i wonder how CO would react..? for anyone that knows (cause i wasn't following up on this particular question)...did CO (at
47 JBLUA320: I dont think Continental has done much to front song in EWR... and they dont really need to. CO's loyalty base out of EWR is huge, and well-deserved-
48 JGPH1A: How much is there in the rumour that B6 want to buy US Airways Shuttle ? (I like the idea very much, and I'm sure B6 could make a real go of it)
49 JetBluefan1: Also, any idea what gates they could use at LGA? Definitely not at the DL/NW terminal, and most likely not the US terminal. Probably the Continental/A
50 FoxBravo: But the whole problem w/ that (as stated above) is the delays that LGA experiences. The delay situation at LGA is frequently blown out of proportion--
51 Luv2fly: I could see B6 doing some Florida runs out of LGA just to hold the slots, like they did on the short runs from LGB to LAS and OAK. Also Florida will b
52 B6FA4ever: ok...i have a question. Is Saturday exempt from the "perimeter" ruling? I noticed a lot of u folks mentioned us flying LGA-west coast "Sat only". Why
53 Luv2fly: Saturday is exempt, so that is why I said Saturday only service.
54 NonRevKing: Wow. Jetblue has had a sting of mistakes in my opinion lately, but this one takes the cake. This is a 180 from when I used to work there. They actuall
55 Flairport: Brian, understand that with Song and now ESPICALLY AA, this must be done. Things have changed, even in the past year. Plus, with the AA fight, it gets
56 Goingboeing: Looking at it purely from a Wall Street perspective, if the "complimentary" flights from LGA to Florida negativly impact any of the loads on their JFK
57 Ckfred: It's no secret that JetBlue wants gate space at ORD. The only problem is that they want 4 or 5 adjacent gates. Unless UA moves some of the Express fli
58 Luv2fly: WOW! It just amazes me how everyone expects B6 to follow tooth and nail there original business plan and not to deviate from it? And once they do, it
59 Cancidas: when are we going to see JFK to LGA flights?
60 JetBluefan1: Well said, Luv2fly. I definitely think that this is a smart move on JetBlue's part. Some people don't realize that some don't want to take the extra 3
61 Goingboeing: Luv2fly - Southwest has deviated once from their business plan in over 30 years - long haul flights. They've "looked" at other planes at various times
62 JBLUA320: What's the fuss about? Times change, business changes... if the world were perfect, every airline would charge low fares, have great service and there
63 JetBluefan1: GoingBoeing, You kind of canceled out your points with 2 different points. First you said that the routes that the 190's will be flying can support 32
64 Goingboeing: GoingBoeing, You kind of canceled out your points with 2 different points. First you said that the routes that the 190's will be flying can support 32
65 Luv2fly: Well like Mom always said, damn if you do, and damn if you don't! So I guess time will tell just how good this move goes for them, I believe it will w
66 ONT 737: Goingboeing I would call flying to PHL is another deviation to Southwest's business plan.....
67 Goingboeing: Okay 2 deviations in 30+ years. Jetblue has had 2 deviations in less than 5. Some other airlines that have had deviations to their business plans in t
68 Luv2fly: So I guess once you decide on your business plan that means never tweaking it, be it to take advantages of opportunity's that arise, such as USAirs fi
69 JetBluefan1: Sorry, but I don't see how hourly flights (high frequency) will be accomplished with an aircraft that isn't all that much smaller than a 320. High Fre
70 MAH4546: I'm not debating over whether or not Southwest or JetBlue has better frequency. They serve different markets - different cities - different planes and
71 Goingboeing: Did you know that Southwest offers 6 daily nonstops between Midland Texas and Dallas? Or 8 daily nonstops between Tulsa and Dallas? Or 6 nonstops betw
72 JetBluefan1: GoingBoeing, Let's not forget that the JetBlue 190's are still going to have less seats than Southwest's 37's. Let's take, for example, a WN flight op
73 InnocuousFox: Higher LF doesn't always equate to higher profit. You need to figure in CASM.
74 SWAFA30: Let's take, for example, a WN flight operating Oklahoma City - Kansas City. How many seats do their planes have? 120? The -200/-500 models seat 122. T
75 Goingboeing: JBFAn---yeppers - that would be a higher load factor, but when you figure that 52% load factor, balanced out with some 100% load factor - they system
76 Luv2fly: NOW you're starting to get it...do you know why Southwests overall load factor is 61%? It's because they offer HIGH FREQUENCY. And higher frequency me
77 JetBluefan1: That 76% load factor puts you perilously close to that "break even" number. But those will be on short hop flights, such as JFK-ORD (MDW?), CLE, DTW,
78 Goingboeing: Nah Luv2Fly...not bashing them, but getting kind of tired of these "I was in an elevator with Neeleman and he farted and it smelled like roses" kind o
79 ScottysAir: Hey MAH4546, Is that getting fiftheen flight out of JFK to FLL flight and those are alot of the people are leaving from New York to Ft. Lauderdale fli
80 Luv2fly: Goingboeing I do enjoy your posts, I guess I am trying to be in the middle, yes I know it will not always be wine and roses. Tho to be honest with yo
81 Goingboeing: Luv2Fly - the feeling is mutual. Somebody has to take the "unpopular" position. If every post was responed to with "megadittos" we might as well be li
82 NonRevKing: I'm backing GoingBoeing on this. We not talking minor deviations or "tweeks" to the business plan. We're talking about 5 major changes in 4 years. At
83 Md80spirit: Starting april5 spirit will fly 9 flts a day from lga to fll, and spirit would also like more slots to add more flts to dtw. jetblue would compete and
84 Luv2fly: NonRevKing You sure have an axe to grind with B6, is this any reason why you no longer work for them? 5 major changes? Hmmmm, so far I can only think
85 Flairport: jw...is there a timetable for starting this service? if they have 2 gates and 5 flights, I COULD SEE THIS AS A POSSIBLILITY ****ONCE AGAIN, I DO NOT W
86 Aa757first: jetblue would compete and hurt a follow lcc if it starts out of lga. I doubt they care about hurting a fellow LCC. As all airlines, jetBlue cares onl
87 Goingboeing: I doubt they care about hurting a fellow LCC. As all airlines, jetBlue cares only about itself, and that is the way it should be. Plus, they also trie
88 Skymileman: So old B6 is moving in across the street, too. Why they would want two airports that close (Almost truly across the street) is beyond me. I absolutely
89 NonRevKing: You sure have an axe to grind with B6, is this any reason why you no longer work for them? Um, no. I moved to a city Jetblue doesn't serve. I have no
90 Luv2fly: I came to that conclusion as you never have anything nice to say about them, and you have come up with fault for anything they do. Also I admit the in
91 MAH4546: I doubt they care about hurting a fellow LCC. As all airlines, jetBlue cares only about itself, and that is the way it should be. Plus, they also trie
92 Luv2fly: MAH4546 FINALLY someone sees it! Yes the consumers lost, and also to some extent DL who moved aircraft to the routes, and also gave away sky miles lik
93 Goingboeing: People act as if jetBlue lost out on something by pulling out of Atlanta. The only loosers in the situation were Atlanta consumers. Actually, the Atla
94 Jeffie813: airtran is adding satellite radio...not as great as TV but it's a step in the right direction.
95 Nyskymasters: As with any true lover of avaiation, no one wants to see anyone fail. To jetbluefan1 tell your uncle those of us aboard AA dont particularly care for
96 Freshlove1: It will eventually catch up with them, expansion is not always best as you can see by their ATL problem. Why bother with LGA there is nothing but cons
97 NonRevKing: I came to that conclusion as you never have anything nice to say about them, and you have come up with fault for anything they do. No, that would not
98 Freshlove1: Yeah i agree NonRev, there seems to be this notion that everything they do is all good and they can't fail. Seems as if we herd this same thing about
99 Luv2fly: Please Vanguard had none of the start up capitol that B6 had/has, in the beginning inconsistent service at best and numerous other problems, one of wh
100 ONT 737: "To restate: Finding themselves very limited at Long Beach, the ATL attempt, the PR disaster of giving private passenger information out (breaking the
101 Jfklganyc: To Clerify, At La Guardia one slot equals one takeoff and one landing. 10 slots equals 10 departures, 10 arrivals--not five. PJ
102 MAH4546: Actually, the Atlanta consumers didn't lose either...Airtran serves that area...remember? Yeah...they can't watch TV on those flights, but as long as
103 Goingboeing: Yes, they did loose. They lost a choice. They had three, now they have two. People in the Miami, Boston, and Washington areas have four choices to fly
104 Jcxp15: Also, people need to get rid of this concept that LGA is delay ridden. Since they imposed slot restrictions, LGA has improved drastically. Since about
105 FoxBravo: I agree completely, Jcxp15. As I mentioned earlier in reply #50, the delays were only really bad a few years ago when it suddenly became a RJ free-for
106 ScottysAir: Exactly. This is not have problems with LGA and it would not make any much delays with their planes and for waiting into the runway with takeoff plane
107 MAH4546: And folks travelling to Nashville from Atlanta have one choice. Two actually. American Connection flies ATL-BNA twice a day. Two choices is always bet
108 Goingboeing: MAH4546 - yep three choices is better than two, and four choices is better than three. But the good citizens of Atlanta still have a choice...and one
109 Luv2fly: I think we all will agree ATL did not work out for B6, be it because of the almighty DL, Airtran or even the fact that B6 did not throw money away cha
110 Flairport: nobody answered my question: When could this feesibly start? I'd like to chime in on the LGA situation. I like delays, you get to see the planes aroun
111 Goingboeing: September 10, 2003 JetBlue named Best US Airline by Conde Nast Traveler Readers for the 2nd year running Now...I gotta ask you this...does this tell y
112 Luv2fly: Well if that is true, then why not all the other airlines? Chicago, where is AA, UA, WN or TZ? Dallas, again where is AA, DL or WN? Atlanta, no DL or
113 NonRevKing: Luv2fly: I think you're getting a little carried away. Just who are you directing all this too? What are you trying to prove? We get it, you love Jetb
114 Luv2fly: NonRevKing I really do not feel I am trying to change anyone's opinion, just pointing out facts, yeah unlike others I do LIKE them, yes even enough to
115 Richierich: Hey SPOT THIS, Did you ever think that sometimes taking risks can REALLY PAY OFF? First, let's end the stupid argument about Conde Naste - that belong
116 Goingboeing: Luv2fly - you sort of proved my point...that is, it shows that Conde Nast readers are mostly in New York or Fort Lauderdale, and not Dallas, Houston,
117 NonRevKing: Oh wow you guys are right. What was I thinking? Everything Jetblue does is great and wonderful and everything will always work out for them. They will
118 Luv2fly: NonRevKing Now who is trying to change who's opinion. Your welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine. Tho I believe yours is clouded as you no longer w
119 JetBluefan1: Plus, they also tried to hurt a fellow LCC in ATL, AirTran. No, they did not. They actually avoided hurting AirTran. JetBlue started service to ATL be
120 Richierich: I don't think JetBlue cares about hurting other airlines, big, small or otherwise. It's called business - but what do I know? I've apparently been dri
121 JetBluefan1: To jetbluefan1 tell your uncle those of us aboard AA dont particularly care for Moody's, so I'm happy he has the ability to fly B6. Why are you sour?
122 Goingboeing: Also, I will pass your note along to my uncle, who I'm sure will tell his boss - the CEO on Moody's. A lot of other people in the large company take A
123 JetBluefan1: GoingBoeing, I don't agree with my uncle only giving an airline one choice. Heck, I think it's horrible! The first time I flew USAir, I hated them! Ho
124 MAH4546: Nope...two years running tells me that Conde Nast has a large readership in New York City and Fort Lauderdale, Florida, as those two cities remain the
125 Goingboeing: You're right MAH4546...but when anybody points out the only other airlines who attempted such rapid expansion (and ordering a bunch of 190's and 320's
126 JBLUA320: .........and the bickering stopssssssssssssssssssss HERE. Lets analyze the facts shall we? -- 1) jetBlue has changed its strategy 2) jetBlue has taken
127 JetBluefan1: Counting the nonstops out of LGB on the JetBlue Website, they have 18 flights a day That's incorrect. Some of the flights may be sold out, that's why