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727s Over Pond  
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

I remember about mid-winter 1993, I saw what I identified as a Lufthansa 727 in Toronto and it may not have been the only one I saw. Similarly, I saw a pic of a United Airlines 727 in London. Why would these airlines use the type over the Atlantic?

Can the -200 fly the Atlantic without refuelling?

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

cannot explain the LH one but the United one was probably operating an internal flight in Europe. (Berlin) Pan-Am used to have a few 727 & 737 based for this purpose - it goes back to the days when Berlin was a divided city. When the Pan-Am trans atlantic routes were taken over by United they also got the european routes as well.

Wardair also used a 727 across the Atlantic with a stop in Iceland i think.



English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineMconway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Alot/most of the 727's will fly the blue spruce route when crossing the pond due to the fact that they are non HF equipped. That way they will be in VHF contact for most of their flight with Gander on 127.9 and Iceland 127.85/126.55. We had a Swiftair 722 come into YQX just yesterday from Iceland.

User currently offlineYOW4NOW From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Good question! I have one that is similar. Was this a route Boeing customers would use when they originally purchased 737's? Similarily, how do current customers receive their 717's if overseas? Or, A-318's and other A-Bus into North America.


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Having American 727's in Europe is easy to explain. As already mentioned the former separated Berlin was the main reason for that. I remember when I saw a whole bunch of Delta 727's parked at FRA up until around 1996 (?). They flew to Athens, Moscow and other European destinations.

As for the Lufthansa 727 in Toronto in 1993. I guess that was a bird that was in storage for a while and then flown over the pond to a) another airline or b) for further storage or c) to be broken up. I guess this since the last 727 left the Lufthansa fleet in 1992.

Max


User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

Continental Micronesia used to operate 727s to GUM from HNL it was called the "island hopper" flight and it stopped in all the tiny micronesian islands prior to reaching GUM.


Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineAceFreighter From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

I believe that Danair used to operate their 727-200's on LGW-YYZ charters during the 80's with 175 seats!

User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

To answer the earlier question about getting aircraft over the pond...

Transatlantically, the planes can stop in any number of places to shorten their overwater time. The last North American field is generally Gander, the there is Greenland (if necessary), Iceland, then Ireland. I don't know what the exact Pacific sequence is, but it probably goes up to Alaska, down the Aleutians and into Russian airspace. The one that involves extra rigging is getting 717's down under or to hawaii; these need to have a few seats removed, and be fitted with extra special collapsible fuel tanks in the cabin. Keep in mind that the planes are generally flown close to empty that first time, so their range increases a bit.



It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

The 717s have four of those fuel tanks installed, and if what I saw in Airliner Magazine was correct, no seats (they must be installed in Hawaii).

When they ordered the DC-9s from DC/MD, they had (IIRC) 8 of those collapsable tanks, maybe more, because of the 717s increased (comparably) range.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Lufthansa used one of the last 727s for occasional charters to US cities.
Strange sight indeed! See this image:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM



User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

I'm quite sure FedEx operated 727F's across the pond from EWR for a time before they acquired the DC-10.

Anyone confirm this?



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Didn't also Sterling used to fly across the pond with their B727s years ago from CPH... Or do I remember totally wrong?

FinnWings


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

FinnWings:
Memory serves you correct. Sterling Airlines used to operate summer seasonal service on the B727 between CPH and YYZ.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineAC330 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

I remember back in the mid to late 90's Royal Airlines did a summer service between St. John's, Newfoundland and Shannon, Ireland on a 727-200. Also Skyservice did a summer service between St. John's and London Gatwick on an Airbus 319 2 summers ago.

AC330


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2164 times:
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Sterling also used to serve FLL from CPH with 727-200's. That was a sight to see.

User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

727s were not normally used for Trans-Atlantic flights because they did not have the fuel range for flights from North America to Europe. It is possible to fly a 727 over such a route, with one or two refueling stops along the way.

User currently offlineB741 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

If memory serves me correct, a 727 was lost in the North Atlantic on 11Sep 90 after running out of fuel. Very tragic and those poor people. It is the only large pax jet aircraft that I know of being lost over the North Atlantic.

Robert



Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

I remember when a TWA 727 was highjacked in Egypt during the mid 80's. I also recall seeing a United 727 in London.

PIA77



GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineBobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

I saw a picture somewhere of a TWA 727 in Athens, it had a big hole in the right side of the fuslage because of a bomb (i think i dont remember much). Either way it was damaged.

Also, Privat Air (operated by LH) flyes from ORD-Dusseldorf, Germany about 5 days a week with a A319. It goes non stop but only has 40 seats and almost the whole belly is a big fuel tank.


User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

The 727 that I mentioned earlier was a TWA flight from Cairo to Athens (flight 847) In the 1985. There was a TV movie on that Highjacking as well.

PIA777



GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

B741,

Four large additions which immediately spring to mind are Air India 742, Swissair MD-11, Egyptair 763 and TWA 741.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineB741 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

Capital 146

You are correct sir. I should of said in my wording "loss not due to sabotage".



Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
User currently offlineGte439u From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

If memory serves me correct, a 727 was lost in the North Atlantic on 11Sep 90 after running out of fuel. Very tragic and those poor people. It is the only large pax jet aircraft that I know of being lost over the North Atlantic.


link to story

It was a Faucett Peru 727 that ditched in the Atlantic due to fuel starvation betweek Keflavik and Gander.


User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

B741,

Sorry if I'm sounding picky but the Swissair MD-11 was definatley not lost due to sabotage either whilst TWA flight 800 is debateable but officially categorised as accidental.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineB741 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

I should of also said "in the middle of the ocean".

Robert



Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
25 Boac707 : Wardair flew the atlantic many moons ago in 727's
26 Post contains links and images F9Widebody : Want to see how they do the 717 filghts, here ya go! View Large View MediumPhoto © AirNikon Regards, F9W
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