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GRR To Western US- Would Frontier Do Well?  
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

I know Grand Rapids needs to expand before it could support any new airlines, but, how well do you think F9 would do with a couple daily GRR-DEN flights? There are no nonstop flights west of DFW/MSP from Grand Rapids. This might open things up to the west.

UAL would also do well I think. They already serve GRR with a mix of A319/A320/737's to ORD.









51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3698 times:
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I wouldn't count on F9 doing it until another LCC does (i.e. B6) especially since UA would start the same route, and I'm sure down the road NW would too.

User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

As a former midwest native, I seem to recall that UA had nonstops to DEN from a lot of cities around the Great Lakes,ie: FWA,SBN, TOL and I think GRR at one time.

Seems to me that an opportunity exists here for RJ's to DEN particularly now with the restictions at ORD. However AA seems to have thought of this first with its RJ's to DFW from a number of these locations.


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

It all depends.

Back in the day, before airlines went hub and spoke crazy, United flew "big" 727s and 737s from cities such as Moline, South Bend, Ft. Wayne, etc.. out to Denver. A 1979 UAL timetable shows such flights... Most people hate changing planes thru Ohare and if GRR had a nonstop link to Denver via Frontier using their new regional partner it just might work.
UA has biggger fish to fry I'm not so sure that Jet Blue would go there...
Just my opinion....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineCapt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

i think the only chance would be an rj flight to a western city. aa flies erj's to dfw, and continental flies the erj-145xr to houston. the problem of course, is that there is not much of a call for nonstops to the west from grand rapids. northwest has 8 or 9 frequencies all through the mcnamara terminal at detroit connecting with dozens of western flights. add to this connections through msp, mem, ord (aa and ual), mdw (ata), stl and dfw (aa), cle, ewr, and iah (continental), atl and cvg (delta), pit (us), and mke (midwest), and these pretty much satisfy demand. furthermore, grand rapids sees much less mainline traffic than it used to. continental, aa, us airways, ata, and midwest all use regionals, delta uses regionals and one 737-200, ual uses mainly crj's and bae-146s, along with two 737s, and even northwest runs a couple arj's to detroit.

the best argument for the need for western nonstops is the overcapacity at chicago. however, whether or not this will result in western nonstops is in question.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3923 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3570 times:
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DEN flights would do well out of GRR, maybe two a day. DEN is the 2nd most destination point out of GRR.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSprxflySWA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

I would think a nonstop to Las Vegas would be the most likely of routes.

As for old mainline flights, I was looking at a July 1,1970 United timetable, and from Youngstown,OH (YNG), they had: 4 NONSTOPS all the way to Akron/Canton (CAK),2 nonstops to ORD,3 nonstops to Newark (EWR),1 n/s to Philadelphia,and 5 nonstops to Pittsburgh.


User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

I wanna see Southwest at GRR. That would be good  Smile

FB05



Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineSprxflySWA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

I will second and third that!!!

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3923 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
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no, we dont need those ugly gold planes in GRR!!!!!!!


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineAZO From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Capt078-

DL actually has two 737's right now, one to CVG and one to ATL.

NW is all mainline to DTW, no Mesaba or Express. Only one ARJ and one CRJ to MSP as well. MEM is also mainline now, as well as TPA and MCO.

UA is currently running three mainline flights to ORD (737), not two.

It might not be what it used to, but its more than you think.



Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3445 times:
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The only airline that would be gutsy enough to fly nonstop to LAS would be Allegiant Air. But they already serve LAN. How far is GRR from LAN?

In terms of F9, I would think they would they inaugurate service to DTW before any other secondary airports.

Doesn't GRR get service from Chicago Express?


User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3439 times:
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Yes, GRR get's service from Chicago Express, WMUPilot should be able to fill you in on that Big grin

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3425 times:
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Is Chicago Express considered as part of the LCC pack, since they are associated with ATA??? It would be nice to see Air Tran fly to GRR.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3923 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3422 times:
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i dont think F9 would fly to DTW first, why jump into a market and compete with two major airlines. If they fly into GRR they will not have competition with anyone, all they will have is steal people from UAL, since most pax of UAL flights seem to be going to DEN.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

LAN is approximately 70 miles East of GRR.

IIll 4th the Southwest idea..

Markets I could see Southwest serving from GRR:
BWI
MCO
HOU
MDW
LAS
PHX



User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

Is Chicago Express's maint. base still @ GRR?

User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

I'd vote positive for F9 to DEN. A 318 to start the market and upgrade it to the 19 if it does well...

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3403 times:
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CALMSP...F9 is building a focus city at LAX. I would think that would be more risky than opening DTW.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3400 times:
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Does GRR meet the population base that WN requires?

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3391 times:

Grand Rapids city Population is 190,000. Kent County has 550,000. There are a lot of peple from smaller cities near Grand Rapids using that airport. I am sure it could support SWA.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3383 times:
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Send a letter to the CEO of WN and see what he has to say. I used to do that when I was younger about OAK. Sometimes it's interesting what they have to say. ICT has been trying for years to woo WN in. But it can barely support F9 (sort of) and FL as it is.

With a population of 300,000, it doesn't meet WN's population base and I personally don't think it could support WN.


User currently offlineCapt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

AZO: i stand corrected, though their schedules fluctuate.

on a different note, jetblue listed grr as potential future city. i emailed jetblue and this was confirmed, though no absolute decision has been made.


User currently offlineSprxflySWA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

CALMSP,
Okay, we'll only schedule the repainted and special scheme planes into GRR.

You could also add in the Lansing population of 120,000. I am sure there would be folks that would drive the 70 miles to travel via WN. Plus Muskegon County's 170,000,etc.

Being centrally located in West-Central Michigan, I am sure there are enough people to sustain WN's service. But only time will tell.


User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Yes, the only LCC service to/from GRR is Chicago Express (dba ATA Connection). Chicago Express doesn't have the maintenance base at GRR anymore. The base was moved to SBN once the new SF340's came online. I have a feeling that the next possible LCC you will see in GRR is Jet Blue. AirTran would be competing head-to-head with Delta. Really no big competition with ATA. It maybe some time before you see Southwest in GRR, if ever. On average 400,000 passengers use GRR to travel a month. The metro population of western michigan is about 700,000 people. That includes Ottawa, Kent, and Allegan County.


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25 Venuscat2 : As far as I can see, WN is NOT coming to GRR anytime soon. We're smacked between MDW and DTW, and until this is such a thing as Southwest Express (whi
26 HlywdCatft : **i dont think F9 would fly to DTW first, why jump into a market and compete with two major airlines. If they fly into GRR they will not have competit
27 Uadc8contrail : look at bmi,,,,didnt bmi biz people get together and pony up some cash for f9 to do bmi-den...1 stop in oma ...but it beats going to ord or stl.....mo
28 Maiznblu_757 : Venus, I dont think anyone in here expects SWA will be serving GRR anytime soon. So, you are not special in that regard. I could see F9 or UAL flying
29 F9Fan : I keep seeing comments from F9 CEO Jeff Potter about wanting to serve DTW, BOS and, on occasion, PIT. I don't see DEN-GRR, except for regional jet ser
30 Syncmaster : I can also confirm an email from JetBlue about GRR being a possible new route...probably not until the E190's start coming in, I don't see a profitabl
31 Post contains links and images Tjwgrr : I see in GRR's future: Air Tran Jet Connect (Air Willy) CRJ's ATL-GRR View Large View MediumPhoto © Manas Barooah Frontier Jet Express CRJ's (Mes
32 B4real : In my opinion, GRR could only support a single Westerly flight daily - morning departure West, late afternoon arrival from West. I think the most like
33 LambertMan : Uadc8contrail, you are quite right about the BMI flight. Back in the 90's local business leaders from State farm insurance (largest insurance corp in
34 Luv2fly : B4real Having lived almost all of my life in Michigan you have hit the nail on the head. Maybe, and this is just a maybe if B6 does come in, you might
35 B4real : Luv2fly: Thanks for agreeing! I guess you are not in MI now. I am, but am originally from Ohio. One other note, I also think WN's model would just not
36 Luv2fly : I was originally from MI and ended up relocating to Ohio for a job, I actually never thought I would be living in Ohio.. Speaking of B6 I really would
37 PSU.DTW.SCE : On the B6 topic, they would likely go to FNT with the E190's before DTW. The problem is, DTW-JFK would be not necessarily going heads up against anyon
38 B4real : Right on PSU.DTW.SCE, and a LCC doesn't have the patience to experiment with a market. Which leads to another point, if an airline (given a flexibilit
39 Venuscat2 : B4Real, Regarding your common use idea: The only way that I can see anything like this happening would be for an airline to rent out their gate to ano
40 B4real : Venuscat2, I have to disagree with you. GRR is not a busy airport. How can busier European airports like FCO, ATH, and locally LAS do it? It is a grea
41 B4real : Okay, further with my idea... The biggest obstacle is not the dollars needed upfront to make GRR more attractive to more carriers by the common-use mo
42 Maiznblu_757 : Great discussion guys. As far as expansion goes, has anyone seen the updated Master Plan? I am just curious if there was anything in the works for a t
43 B4real : Chad/Maiz: I was talking with an airline employee @ GRR and he mentioned a possible RJ concource going from close to where gate A2 goes , chopping up
44 Maiznblu_757 : Username: B4real From United States, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 2 Further, if WestMI customers Really want the WN experience for a non-stop fligh
45 Wmupilot : NW: 4 (?) 2xA319,2xDC-9 DL: 3 3xCRJ US Express: 1xERJ UA: 2x737 TZ: 1XSaab? YX: 1x? COExp: 1xERJ? AEagle: 2xERJ? Correct on DL, US, AE, UA NW depends
46 Maiznblu_757 : Brian, Is that possibly the 26R project?
47 Wmupilot : Yeah i think so. The planned runway was to intersect 26L before 35 and then intersect 35 just east of the fire station. Prolly a 13/31 runway if they
48 B4real : Well if this is true that they have more moeny than they know what to do with it, this is good! I'd like to see them gain efficiencies, but if they ar
49 Wmupilot : Before politicians went bad, sounds like the next Fox show, the founding fathers of the original Grand Rapids Regional Airport set up a type of trust
50 Tjwgrr : "Now where Steelcase is at on 44th is where the original airport use to be and now Steelcase has to pay rent on the land and that money goes into the
51 Wmupilot : I knew the area was around there...just wasn't sure on the exact location. Yes the funds from the land are used by GRR for airport improvements. The a
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