IslandHopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 225 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19689 times:
I have a friend in Moscow whom I wish to visit soon, and I talked about flying Aeroflot who has good fares. My friend recommended against it, saying that Aeroflot is lax with rules. He swears that a pilot once let his son fly an Aeroflot jet, and the child crashed it!
Sounds like an urban legend, but he is not one to lie. I looked all over Airdisaster and Aviation Safety websites, but couldn't find out anything. If it's true, does anyone have any links describing the incident?
I will probably fly Aeroflot anyway, but that's a scary story if true.
Homeroid From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19588 times:
It is true, sort of. The pilot's son didn't purposely crash it. He was sitting in the captain's seat and the pilot's daughter was in the co-pilot's seat. I think the son accidentally disconnected the autopilot, and the A310 ended up stalling and then entered a spin. The crew almost regained control but didn't, and everyone on board perished.
TG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19559 times:
Location: Mezhdurechensk, Russia
Aircraft: Airbus A310-300
Fatalities/No. Aboard: 75:75
Details: The aircraft crashed after a captain allowed his child to manipulate the controls of the plane. The pilot's 11 year old daughter and 16 year old son were taking turns in the pilot's seat. While the boy was flying, he inadvertently disengaged the autopilot linkage to the ailerons and put the airliner in a bank of 90 degrees which caused the nose to drop sharply. The co-pilot pulled back on the yoke to obtain level flight but the plane stalled. With his seat pulled all the way back, the co-pilot in the right hand seat could not properly control the aircraft. After several stalls and rapid pull-ups the plane went into a spiral descent. In the end the co-pilot initiated a 4.8g pull-up and nearly regained a stable flight path but the aircraft struck the ground in an almost level attitude killing all aboard. The aircraft was named Glinka, after Mikhail Glinka, the father of Russian music.
TWAMD-80 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1006 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19553 times:
I have heard the same thing. The story that I was told was that the pilot let his son come up and fly the jet-I don't recall what kind it was, but anyways the plane ended up crashing killing all onboard. I am not sure how accurate this is though.
Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 19238 times:
Yep it's certainly true, i read about it in Air Disaster vol. 3. The Captain in fact first let his daughter fly the plane and then let his 15 year old son fly it. The stupid thing was that the co-pilot had his seat fully back and couldn't reach the controls when he needed to due to high G forces. The crew should have been aware of the autopilot disconnect but they were a bit unfamiliar with the Airbus systems as opposed to the classic soviet era jets they were used to flying and so the plane stalled and eventually entered a spin- hitting the ground in a level attitude at a rate of descent of around 30,000 feet/min.
SLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18824 times:
OK, somebody help me fill in the blanks....
I think the same thing happened with a KC-135. As I recall, it was an orientation flight with family members on board, and there was a spouse at the helm. Things got out of hand and the plane crashed, in Maryland, I think...
Can anybody confirm this?
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
IslandHopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 18534 times:
Wow! I can't believe that a pilot would put an 11 year old and a 16 year old at the helm of a widebody jet!!! I had no idea it was a (relatively) large A310. WHAT AN IDIOT PILOT!!! How can someone smart enough to become a captain of a widebody be so stupid and irresponsible.
It's not like they're driving the family car, it's 75 peoples LIVES for pete's sake! At least we can be thankful there were so few people aboard the plane, an A310 has a lot more capacity. Still, 75 deaths because of an idiotic decision.
Maybe I'll think twice about flying Aeroflot after all.
Planenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17715 times:
Does anyone know what the ramifications were for Aeroflot? I'm surprised that they didnt have their air operators certificate revoked in several counrtries after an incident like this. Or at least be fined a whole lotta money.
Also, I dont recall any huge media coverage of the crash. For some reason it ws kept quiet at the time, and didnt really come to light until several years later.
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2085 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17350 times:
Funny this topic came up (nothing funny about the story of course). When I was home over break I was talking to my neighbor (he came over for some insurance biz w/ my dad) who is a UAL 744 captain (formerly 777/767). We were talking about how he's been all over Europe, and I asked him about some of his experiences over there . One of the very first thing that came up was Aeroflot, he said when he would be offered the Jumpseat into AMS or wherever he was going he said over his dead body. He told me that he'd rather drive or wait for a red-eye than fly w/ Aeroflot. He said one time was enough for the rest of his life on Aeroflot.
Cmckeithen From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17185 times:
What is wrong with these international air carriers. They lack common sense in my opinion as far as safety goes and the pilots who fly the planes also lack common sense.
Take Swiss Air Flight 111 for example. You have smoke in the cockpit (who cares if your a by the book Captin) YOU LAND THE PLANE as soon as you can. They made the tragic mistake of waiting to COMPLY with Swiss Air company procedures as to declaring a smoke in cockpit emergency. Then they waste 25mins diverting to dump fuel. YOU LAND. Smoke = Fire. The manufactures are also to blame in that one. WHY put insulation that can burn eaisly on an aircraft? Hello, are they even considering safety?
In the USA you would NEVER hear about a pilots son/daughter in the cockpit let alone flying it for a sec. They would not be allowed in there for a milisecond.
Goose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 16952 times:
Um, YOU HAVE TO DUMP FUEL TO LAND A PLANE THAT HEAVY. Procedures help keep people alive.
No, you don't. You can still land a plane which is grossly overweight.... it won't be pretty, you might snap the gear (a la FedEx in MEM less than a month ago) or run off the runway, and it's likely the aircraft would never fly again.
But.... I'll make it simple by contrasting the two;
A written off aircraft and some (if not most) people alive, but the PIC ignored company and manufacturer procedures is still good outcome.
An aircraft destroyed and all people aboard killed, but the PIC followed all procedures to the letter will always be a bad outcome.
Aviadvigatel From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 16943 times:
Anyone who states that they won't fly with Aeroflot needs a reality check. Okay, so it's a horrific story, the accident was avoidable and the Captain showed fatally poor judgement.... but if you don't think that human error (including stupidity!) is the majority cause of most aviation accidents worldwide, then you'd better stay at home.
According to the story in the link below, Soviet air safety has been equal or better than that in the US, except in 1986 and there were no civil aviation casualties from 1997 until mid 2001. I remember that this has also been the case in more recent years, even discounting the casualties from 9/11. In 2002 there were 3 accidents in the US, 2 in Russia; In 2003 - 3 in the US 1 in Russia (Aviation Safety Network).
IslandHopperCO, if that doesn't convince you, you get a cooked meal with Aeroflot rather than a roll with BA!