Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Westjet Serious About A Regional Jet?  
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2743 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

This is taken from globeinvestor.com, Jan. 22.

WestJet is in the process of refurbishing and expanding its fleet, with nearly two dozen new, more fuel-efficient Boeing 737-700 aircraft set for delivery over the next two years.

However, it also has been looking at buying smaller regional jets from Brazil's Embraer SA or Boeing Co.

Mr. Beddoe said, during the call, that WestJet is still in discussions with both companies and it would be premature to say which way it is leaning.

Following the call, he said it will likely be three to six months before it makes a decision. "The struggle is to ascertain which is the better opportunity for us," he said.


I thought the EMB-190 was just a one time thing, because EMB brought it to YYC?



40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

Well it makes sense. Westjet serves all the major destinations in Canada right now, so any new expansion in Canada will have to be increase in frequencies or new routes to smaller towns. With Westjet's 73G's seating close to 140, it makes it difficult for the airline to add a bunch of frequencies or operate out of smaller airports. An Embraer 190 or 717 (I guess since Boeing is in the running) would perfectly compliment the larger aircraft. Also with Air Canada moving towards a larger regional jet fleet and more point to point services, Westjet will have to respond with more of their own point-to-point services. The fact is that most passengers in BC have to transit through YYC to reach destinations in the east. This new breed of regional jets could make marginal point-to-point flights profitable and make US expansion less risky by offering a smaller amount of seats to a new market. With Jetblue's order of the Embraer jets, I wouldn't be suprised to see Westjet follow, since those two airlines are more related in terms of structure than Westjet is with Southwest.

User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

The -700s actually will all seat 136 in the coming months, as a row is taken out to increase pitch.

And I've heard that it's actually the 737-600 which is in the running as Boeing's "entrant." That would make more sense than the 717, since they would have fleet commonality with the -700s......



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2743 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

I hope they don't get the -600, it has practically the same operating costs as the 73G but less seats.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Less Seats makes it a bit more expensive, plus its a little bit big for some of the places they want to take it into...esentially the -600 is the same as the 700, and WJ needs something that is not soo big, heavy, and expensive...the EMB may be just the thing they need to fill that "little" niche.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

There's still plenty of markets which WestJet can serve with the -700..... it doesn't necessarily need to be a 1x daily to warrant service - maybe once every two days or so in some markets. In the case of markets which WS pulled out of - YBR, YAM and YSB - the traffic was seasonal anyway.... so WestJet could still capitalize on those markets by re-instituting their Limited Addition programs........ which would make a lot more money overall than year-round service, regardless of aircraft type.


"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5583 times:

Thanks for posting that article D8King. I found the .Following the call, he said it will likely be three to six months before it makes a decision. "The struggle is to ascertain which is the better opportunity for us," he said. comment to be interesting, at least we know that an announcement is coming.

I know we want(ed) the 737-600, even though most in this forum don't think we should get it. As I understand it seats 120 PAX, give or take a few, and is a NG instead of an old, old, old, -200. When JetBlue placed an order, we apparently took some keen interest in the EMB170/190 as well. I don't know which way we're going to go, but I think the EMB opens a lot more options and cities for us.



EH.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

I'm sure that Boeing's less than stellar sales of the -600's could produce a rock bottom deal if Westjet was really interested...

User currently offlineFiedman From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

This is what I said in a thread a few weeks earlier and you all thought I was crazy who's laughing now  Laugh out loud


Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

I'm sure that Boeing's less than stellar sales of the -600's could produce a rock bottom deal if Westjet was really interested...
-----

No....It is produced on the same line. Its fixed costs are largely shared with the other 737 models. The only incentive Boieng has to give them a better deal on the -600 is to win orders away from Embraer.

The 717 has its own fixed costs to cover since it is produced on its own line. This gives Boieng a major incentive to sell the bird.

Its interesting that Bombardier is out of the running. Embraer and Boeing offer comfort, range and payload advantages, but one would think that a Canadian company would have some advantage......


User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5318 times:

Its interesting that Bombardier is out of the running. Embraer and Boeing offer comfort, range and payload advantages, but one would think that a Canadian company would have some advantage......

WestJet isn't quite as motivated by politics as Air Canada is...... WestJet seems to pay a little more attention as to what would be good for the bottom line and shareholders....



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

"WestJet seems to pay a little more attention as to what would be good for the bottom line and shareholders.... "

-$100 bucks says that the CRJ is not only cheaper for WS, but also more suited for WestJEt's markets. Sudbury, Comox, Moncton, Sault Ste.Marie, Gander, Fort McMurray and Prince George... please? The ERJ190 will offer WS the same type of seating as a typical 100 seater. Its still way too big for these markets, where frequency rather than capacity is better.

The CRJ-700/705 is proven, the EMB has not proven a single thing yet. In fact, it has even flown.

However, what conspiracist theorists could argue is that Canadair is from QC, ... what an insult that would be buying something from La Belle QC.

Whatever tradeoffs between the two products in terms of passenger comfort, the CRJ flies the same range, and is lighter. Prob cheaper also...

Mark


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5291 times:

However, what conspiracist theorists could argue is that Canadair is from QC, ... what an insult that would be buying something from La Belle QC.

Mark, I am a fan of Canadair over Embraer like you (as are most Cdns), but you have to admit that the EMB-170/190 has some advantages over the CRJ series....higher capacity for one. The EMB-190 is also selling much better than the CRJ.

Realistically either the CRJ or ERJ could fit nicely in the Westjet fleet. Any possible order or interest by WJ for the ERJ should not be labelled "anti QC". Nor should any fans of the ERJ.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2743 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

I would rather see the EMB in the fleet, it has a wider body does it not?

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

Right.

But I would argue that WS doesnt need an EMB in their fleet.

There is no need for 90-95 seats, so many markets cant even support 50-60 seats.

Mark


User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

$100 bucks says that the CRJ is not only cheaper for WS, but also more suited for WestJEt's markets. Sudbury, Comox, Moncton, Sault Ste.Marie, Gander, Fort McMurray and Prince George... please? The ERJ190 will offer WS the same type of seating as a typical 100 seater. Its still way too big for these markets, where frequency rather than capacity is better.

Goose made a good point - Westjet isn't motivated by politics. I haven't heard a peep about us even looking at CRJ's, but that's not to say we haven't. Regardless of what aircraft we decide to go with, a smaller aircraft will allow us to re-enter markets we've pulled out of and start service to new markets which we haven't flown to.

I've heard talk of us contracting smaller airlines such as Pacific Coastal and Hawkair to do regional flying for us. Maybe those airlines can cater to cities whch can only handle 50 or 60-odd passenger movements a day? Maybe the EMB can tackle cities which can handle 80-200 passenger movements a day?

One thing is for sure, when our -200's get retired I don't think we can handle flying 3 or 4 flights a day to cities like YXS, YMM, and YQU and still make money. We need a smaller aircraft and I think the EMB would be a great fit and would be able to offer more frequencies.

I've never flown on a CRJ or EMB so I can't comment on either. I've heard that the EMB is more comfortable for the passenger and is also able to handle installation of LiveTV so I would tend to think that we'd go with the EMB.



EH.
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5157 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Have any of the above posts heard of Embraer 170's and 175's? Main line comfort and range and specially lsufficient uggage and cargo capacity so much in demand during Canadian winters (September thru early May)? So maybe you combine some 170/175's and 190/195's--they have the same type rating and can cover the 70-100pax routes including seasonal shifts.


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

To be exact, CanadaEH.... I stated that WestJet isn't as influenced by politics as AC. They still make decisions based on politics, and have engaged in political blustering of their own.... I don't think you could survive in this industry if you didn't.

But anyway, in this case.... I don't think the fact that the manufacturer is Canadian would hold much sway over whether or not they purchase an aircraft - suitability to the company's needs would override any desire to "Buy Canadian."

It'd be interesting to see if WestJet would enter into a code-share or alliance with a smaller regional partner.... much like what KI did with Sunwest when they were cutting back service into smaller centres like YQL or YXH......



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

I haven't heard any talk from people inside Westjet about contracting other airlines to feed into us, but I have heard the regional airlines talking about it.. Yet another "what if" I guess..


EH.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

But I would argue that WS doesnt need an EMB in their fleet.

Why not? Many markets are too large for the 73G. Such as YQB/YAM which WJ pulled out of.

WJ could add alot more smaller Cdn cities with the ERJ/CRJ.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

The EMB is pretty much a 100 seater .. the 73NG is 140 seats.

100 seats is still too big for too many markets in Canada. Do you honestly believe that YULYQM will fill up a 73NG, or YQBYYZ?

What would be cool is to see WS with CRJ-200's.. even if this is a pipe dream, WS with this aircraft could literally take over the Canadian skies. They would need 30-40 pax to break-even, whereby pretty much every town become prime for service  Big thumbs up

Mark


User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

I'll probably get bashed for suggesting the B717-200s....


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Why not? Many markets are too large for the 73G. Such as YQB/YAM which WJ pulled out of.

WestJet never flew to YQB. You're probably thinking of YSB. They've also flown to YBR at one point in time on a "Limited Addition" schedule during the summer season only. It'd be nice to see WS add a least a few destinations on a similar schedule scheme, but I don't know if that will happen. WS hasn't done Limited Additions in a few years.

The EMB is pretty much a 100 seater .. the 73NG is 140 seats.

100 seats is still too big for too many markets in Canada.


WS' -700s technically have 135 seats, or something - they removed some rows to increase pitch not long ago, or so I read.

I believe that, if the same seating scheme were used on a 737-600, it'd come out to just above 100 seats.... no? And I would think that retaining fleet commonality and one supplier of parts, not to mention a single manufacturer, would be a big draw for WestJet.

But only time will tell.



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

The EMB is pretty much a 100 seater .. the 73NG is 140 seats. 100 seats is still too big for too many markets in Canada.

WJ only needs 65 passengers to break even on the EMB. The EMB might be perfect.

WestJet never flew to YQB. You're probably thinking of YSB.

I meant YSB. Thanks. Fat fingers.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

WJ only needs 65 passengers to break even on the EMB. The EMB might be perfect.

I was told once that the "magic number" for break-even on the -700s was not that much higher than 65 folks.......

And with 110-140 seats on the 73Gs, that means that everything above that number is gravy - allowing WestJet to have seat sales and so on to "create" more demand in smaller markets. They've managed to do this in centres like YQQ and YLW.... both have shown phenomenal growth since WestJet started there, as their competition in both those centres was primarily restricted to regionals flying F28s and Dash-8s.



"Talk to me, Goose..."
25 RayChuang : I think right now Bombardier is rueing the day they shelved the BRJ-X project and decided not to take over the Fairchild-Dornier 728/928 projects. The
26 Yyz717 : I think right now Bombardier is rueing the day they shelved the BRJ-X project and decided not to take over the Fairchild-Dornier 728/928 projects. Ray
27 FLYYUL : All indications are that STAR will get in part CRj;s.. The CRJ offers commonality with a product that is overwhelmingly operated by all STAR carriers.
28 Dash8King : If they did get a regional jet, anyone else think that YZF would be a future destination?
29 Yegbey01 : The 50 seaters could do marvels for WestJet. They could easily add a whole bunch of destinations. Brandon, Sudbury, Lethbridge. I don't agree with YZF
30 Dash8King : YZF is about half cargo half, half pax. Westjet could easily fill once or twice daily to YEG. There are about 4-5 flights a day on average, and I don'
31 Lymanm : Because of similar operating costs between the 737-600 and 737-700, saying that a 737-600 would open up new possibilities to smaller communities would
32 Usnseallt82 : I think the expansion to RJ's would be a nice touch. It might lower some of their high operating costs. Cheers!
33 Goose : I think the expansion to RJ's would be a nice touch. It might lower some of their high operating costs. WestJet's high operating costs? Uhm.... WS' op
34 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I stand corrected then. The last time I checked, which was I while ago, I admit, they were operating slightly higher than most Canadian carriers, but
35 Goose : That's interesting.... as to my knowledge, WestJet has always has an advantage in terms of costs. They've always been kept low; the airline has been a
36 Dash8King : Perhaps you saw the CASM, and it looked high because it was in CDN cents not american.
37 Cloudy : A Westjet higher-up speaking at the "growth airlines conference" . This webcast is archived and reachable from Southwest Airline's website. He said a
38 YOW : The last time I checked, which was I while ago, I admit, they were operating slightly higher than most Canadian carriers, but I'm sure that's changed
39 Dash8King : Yow you work for First Air, is there any way you can tell how loads are out of the YZF-YEG run.
40 Aviationman : Pax loads on YEG-YZF fluctuate. For sure the busiest First Air flight YEG-YZF is 7F957. A late night flight with 75+ passengers regurarely.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Rumor About Exprees Jet posted Thu Nov 16 2006 00:58:10 by ERAUgrad02
AI(R) 70-seat Regional Jet posted Sun Oct 22 2006 10:09:16 by BA
Suppliers Seen Sharing NWA Regional Jet Order posted Tue Oct 3 2006 23:44:00 by KarlB737
F9 Buys 10 Q400's, Seeks Regional Jet Expansion posted Wed Sep 6 2006 15:57:50 by NZblue
New 100-130 Seat Large Regional Jet Design posted Wed Aug 9 2006 14:56:12 by Keesje
Russian Regional Jet, How Will It Fair In The West posted Wed May 24 2006 00:23:23 by Dogfighter2111
United Introduces You To The Regional Jet: Evolved posted Tue May 16 2006 22:17:51 by FlyCMH
Regional Jet Frenzy posted Wed Mar 8 2006 21:40:25 by Jetflyer
European Tour To Showcase CRJ900 Regional Jet posted Wed Mar 8 2006 12:31:03 by Leelaw
Chinese Regional Jet posted Sun Feb 19 2006 21:24:39 by Csturdiv