Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 9 Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5787 times:
In all the years they have been around, not one AA A300 has ever served a direct route to DFW. Why? At the same time, why have the Fokkers never served MIA? It just seems to me that if an airline is to have a major hub some place, you would expect that all of their aircraft would operate into that city. The A300s have been around as long or longer than the 763ERs, and the F-100s enjoyed over 10 years of service before the withdrawal process began. AA has had hubs at ORD, DFW, and MIA for a very long time too.
777boy From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5725 times:
Simple answer to your first question. The A300s have found their niche on the Latin American routes. AA seems to love the capacity, and with a high concentration of Latin-Americans in MIA and JFK, it only makes sense to fly the soon to be LRTC (less room throughout coach) planes on these routes. I think that 757s (also LRTC) are used on DFW and ORD routes to Latin America, but I'm not really sure. I'll bet someone more familiar with the situation can give a better answer.
As to the Fokkers never going to MIA, where would they fly from MIA? DFW and ORD both have numerous large cities within about a thousand miles that people are wanting to connect to. Since MIA is tucked in its own corner of the country, I can't think of any route the Fokkers would have been good for. The same applies to LAX. As far as I know, Fokkers have never served LAX. LAX is also in corner of the country and mostly get really long flights (1,000+ mi) on other, bigger planes, or Eagle flights of 500- miles. Just a geography issue, I think.
I'm sure someone else with more info can back me up here, or prove me wrong.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5668 times:
The A300s have found their niche on the Latin American routes. AA seems to love the capacity, and with a high concentration of Latin-Americans in MIA and JFK, it only makes sense to fly the soon to be LRTC
It's not the pax capacity they love... it's the cargo.
The only other aircraft in their fleet than can carry sufficient cargo on the island routes are the 772ERs... yet those aircraft are illsuited for continual short/mediumhaul in the manner than AA uses the AB6s
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5567 times:
ORD and DFW are frequency markets for AA; as it is, only the occasional 767/777 is seen flying domestic routes in these markets. In general, AA likely doesn't need the capacity of the AB6 to/from DFW & ORD. But I agree that DFW/ORD-MIA/SJU are realistic AB6 routes.
I almost seem to remember AA A300's that flew LHR-ORD..
AA temporarily flew 3-class AB6 to Europe in the late 1990s/early 2000s while waiting to take delivery of more B763. However, I don’t believe LHR-ORD was one of the routes – they were flown exclusively from JFK and BOS IIRC.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7999 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5255 times:
As mentioned above.....the A300's were acquired at the time when AA was building up its operations at MIA. AA had already commited to 767's, but Crandall, being the savy business guy that he was, basically told McD and Boeing to go screw themselves and went out and purchased the Airbus and Fokker since Boeing thought they had the 763 order all wrapped up, and wasn't cutting any deals. After AA placed the A300 order, sure enough, they got a much better deal on the 763's. The A300's were suited for the markets out of MIA and SJU. Yes, AA did fly the A300 on MIA-ORD in the 90's, and a short stint on MIA-LAX.
The A300's were also arriving at time just when the industry was headed into a downturn around the time of the Gulf War. In the aftermath, around 92-94, AA began to retire its oldest DC-10-10's. Thus many were flying routes out of ORD and to/from SJU. Therefore, the A300's replaced many of the DC-10 routes out of SJU and the 757's and 767's were put on some of the mid-con routes.
Once the industry began to recover, AA found itself short on widebody aircraft. The DC-10 phase-out was halted. Also, AA didn't have enough 767's to cover Trans-Atlantic flying so 8 A300's were converted to 3-class service to cover some of the East-Coast-LHR routes. This lasted until the end of 2001 when AA decided to standardize its Trans-Atlantic flying around the 763 and 777.
F-100's were primarily order to handle the growth at the BNA hub, which was later closed down. They were a ahead of their time, as they have much in common with the 90 seat "RJ" F-100's were not used in MIA due to the nature of the hub. Only now are we starting to see more multiple daily flights from domestic cities. In the past, what was typical was an aircraft would leave DTW in the morning, go to MIA, they fly to a point south like CCS, POS, etc, then turn around fly back to MIA, then fly to some domestic city to remain overnight. This was very typical of the routing for the 727's, 757's and now 738's. The F-100 was unable to do such flights as they would have to stay in the US.
LMP737 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 4857 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
Another reason you don't see A300 at ORD and DFW is economics. When you have an aircraft flying in and out of a station you have to stock spares and have your maintenance people trained on that aircraft. By eliminating the A300 out of ORD and DFW AA saves money on both spares and training. A little side affect of removing the A300 from AA ORD's schedule was their reliability numbers went up.
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5146 times:
Potentially I would think that the -772ER has a far greater cargo capacity than the A300. Look at the friggin difference in the size of these two planes. The -772ER makes the A300 look kinda tiny. Then again, the cabin width is about the same for both planes, both have perfectly circular cross-sections.
Maiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5090 times:
All of my timetables are from early 90's and late 90's for AA I looked thru about 30 of them and didnt see any LHR-ORD service with A300's. I used to look at high flyers all the time, and can almost remember seeing a few AA A300's flying over TVC VOR making their way to ORD. I cannot confirm this, so for now I am wrong.
I did find a couple AA A300's in LAX and DFW however. One of the A300's to DFW flew LHR-EWR-DFW.
LMP737 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 4857 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4905 times:
Yes, I am aware that TUL does the heavy maintenance on the A300. However when the A300 was flying in and out of ORD AA was training their AMT's to work on them. Along with stocking spare parts for the aircraft.
Delta320 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4871 times:
AA did operate the A.300-605R on the ORD-MIA route, I know this b'coz I was lucky enough to fly on it !! This was in 1995. Also as a footnote to this info, the SHIP # that I did happen to fly from ORD to Mia on was N14053. This was the A.300-600R that American lost on climbout from JFK in Nov' 2001.
: It"s a little known fact, but the Chicago Department of Aviation passed an Ordinance in the mid '90's prohibitting A300's from operating at ORD.....si
: Ordpark: Is this really true or are you being a bit sarcastic?
: evidently, a very bad attempt at sarcasm...
: Ordpark: Actually I was being sarcastic about you being sarcastic.
: otentially I would think that the -772ER has a far greater cargo capacity than the A300. Look at the friggin difference in the size of these two plane
: If A300s really get your rocks off and you live around DFW UPS and FX fly them there. http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=489730&WxsIERv=QWlyYnVzIEE
: Yes. AA A300 flights from EWR, BOS, and JFK To LHR took place in the late 90s (at least from 1999) and up to about 2001. I remember in Early 2001, the
: Going a little paste-crazy there startvalve?
: Tommy-you are right, I took AA92/92 when it was the A300. -- I should add- at DFW in the jetways they have a setting for an A300 only at American's 'A
: Good day everybody, Being a "ramp rat" at DFW. I asked those same questions myself. Fokker 100's wouldn't have made it in MIA for those reasons stated
: i can guarantee you'd see at least one if you look over at the FEDEX ramp