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AA/US/DL In The Caribbean  
User currently offlineB757LVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

Sorry if this topic has been addressed, but to all those knowlegeable about the management of flights and Caribbean/us aviation trends, during the 90's AA along with Eagle dominated the region then more or less closed up shop with the exception of a few to concentrate on Latin America. No other US carrier filled that void till very recently with US Airways a newcomer to the region but already expanded into many of the those which were served by AA. Now Delta is poised to begin service in Apr to St.Lucia. To what do you attribute this change and renewed focus on the region and do you think AA will be able to regain the market dominance it once had in the region. US Airways seems well on the way to establish itself as the carrier of choice to the United States..

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

US Airways seems well on the way to establish itself as the carrier of choice to the United States..

About the only thing US is on the way to is the hangman's noose.

AA remains by far the largest operator between the USA and Caribbean.


User currently offlineB757LVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

;( wow the employees of US will sure appreciate that! Regardless of your feelings about US, the demise of any airline has far reaching human and economic implications. I was merely suggesting that US seems to be quickly expanding in the region and that might place them in a good strategic position. Of course I am keen on hearing from some people who have actually studied the trends in that region.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

US Airways seems well on the way to establish itself as the carrier of choice to the United States..

No they aren't. They offer a healthy (and profitable) route network, but still, many of thier flights are weekend only. American Airlines, on the other hand:

-Offers at least daily frequency from Miami on every Caribbean destination served from Miami.
-Offers more Caribbean destinations than USAirways.
-Offers more frequency to the Caribbean than USAirways.
-Offers service to more US gateways than USAirways.
-Operates a full hub in the Caribbean at San Juan.
-Is the top airline on routes from Miami, New York City, and Boston to the Caribbean. Those are the three largest markets between the US and the Caribbean, not only because of tourism, but because they have America's largest Caribbean immigrant communities.

do you think AA will be able to regain the market dominance it once had in the region.

They still have that dominance and are not about to lose it.




a.
User currently offlineSebwhite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

US Airways serves Antigua, Aruba, Barbados, Cancun, Cozumel, Grand Bahama Island, Grand Cayman, Grenada, Montego Bay, Nassau, Providenciales, Punta Cana, San Juan, Santo Domingo, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, St. Thomas, St. Maarten, and St. Croix.

(And also Belize, Bermuda, Cancun, Cozumel)

Through the GoCaribbean network carriers, US Airways serves Anguilla, Dominica, St. Eustatius, Nevis, Saba, St. Barthelemy, St. Vincent, Tobago and Tortola.



User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

back in 2000 when UA was the largest carrier in the world, there were all sorts of rumors about huge MIA expansion and that we would be launching a very comprehensive list of destinations in the Carribbean. Everyone kept saying that AA had too much control down there and that the island governments were requesting that UA start service to add some competition.

So much for that idea! I guess with the US codeshare UA gets some of the needed coverage in that region. In speaking with some of my UA friends (yes you Gail and Gordon--> would you join this site already! I know you're reading this!), we all think UA will pick up US' Carribean routes at the "fire sale".

just my two cents
FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2380 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Continental serves Montego Bay, Kingston, Grand Cayman, Puerto Plata, Santiago DR, Santo Domingo, San Juan, Aguadilla, St. Thomas, St. Martin, Antigua, Barbados, Aruba, Caracas, Port of Spain, Cancun, Cozumel, Belize City, Freeport, Nassau, and Bermuda.

Additionally, Continental Connection carrier Cape Air provides service to Ponce PR, St. Croix USVI, and Tortola BVI.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

US Airways serves Antigua, Aruba, Barbados, Cancun, Cozumel, Grand Bahama Island, Grand Cayman, Grenada, Montego Bay, Nassau, Providenciales, Punta Cana, San Juan, Santo Domingo, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, St. Thomas, St. Maarten, and St. Croix.

(And also Belize, Bermuda, Cancun, Cozumel)

Through the GoCaribbean network carriers, US Airways serves Anguilla, Dominica, St. Eustatius, Nevis, Saba, St. Barthelemy, St. Vincent, Tobago and Tortola.


Don't forget Mexico City, San José and La Romana, which have all started since October.

Also, US Airways Express serves Marsh Harbour and North Eleuthera.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

do you think AA will be able to regain the market dominance it once had in the region.

They still have that dominance and are not about to lose it.


I'd have to agree with MAH
Although US Air is trying to get a sizeable piece of the pie of the caribbean market, they sitll aren't quite there. American has them beat and then some.
Here in Nassau they have at least 50+ plus daily flights to just the Florida market alone using Eagle.

They still have and will continue to have dominance over the Carribean area unless the other carrriers step up and start to challenge their authority.

This is what you see US/CO are trying to do because they realize the profit that could be made on the US/Carib routes.
Now if only NW/DL and maybe some LCC like WN/HP/F9 try to expand more into the area, it would be great. Air Tran already services Freeport and makes a profit.

Out of all these UA is the most surprising with hardly any presence on such good money making routes.



Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

Here in Nassau they have at least 50+ plus daily flights to just the Florida market alone using Eagle.

Not quite fifty. 12 dailies to Miami (17 during high season), 6 to Ft. Lauderdale, 2 to Orlando, and 1 to Tampa, for a total of 21. Plus on Saturdays and Sundays, two dailies to Raleigh.

Don't forget Mexico City, San José and La Romana, which have all started since October.

Neither Mexico City nor San José are in the Caribbean. For that matter, neither is Cozumel nor Cancun nor Belize City nor Caracas. If one were to get even more technical, the Bahamas is also not in the Caribbean, even though they do consider themselves a "Caribbean nation".

Also, US Airways Express serves Marsh Harbour and North Eleuthera.

North Eleuthera service has been discontinued.

Additionally, Continental Connection carrier Cape Air provides service to Ponce PR, St. Croix USVI, and Tortola BVI.

Cape Air flies these flights, but independetly, not as Continental Connection. Continental does have thier codeshare on the flights if you are originating on another Continental flight (i.e. you can fly EWR-SJU-PSE on CO; you cannot call up CO and book SJU-PSE). It operates like USAirways codeshare with Winnair. You can call up USAirways and book PHL-SXM-SAB, but you cannot call them and book SXM-SAB.

This is unlike American Eagle, where you can book them on MIA-SJU-ANU or just SJU-ANU.

Though, for Continental Connection, Gulfstream International Airlines flies between MIA and FLL and eight destinations in the Bahamas as Continental Connection: NAS, FPO, TCB, MHH, GGT, GHB, TIB, and ELH.






a.
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2686 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

You probably should've included Continental in the Carribean too. They serve SJU and the Dominican Republic, and St. Maarten. Their presence in the Carribean is equally as great as the three carriers mentioned above.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineA330Jamaica From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

MAH4546,

Cozumel and Cancun can be considered the Caribbean. Cancun lies on the Yucatan Peninsula Caribbean coast and Cozumel is a Mexican island in the Caribbean Sea of the Yucatan Peninsula. I would even say both Belize City and Caracas are Caribbean as well. Belize City sits on the coast of Belize which of course borders the Caribbean Sea and Caracas lies just a short drive inland through some tunnels from the Caribbean coast of Venezuela. In fact Simon Bolivar International lies on the coast and is a major airport serving Caracas. On the others however, you are correct.


User currently offlineB757LVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

Hey THRUST, you are right I overlooked CO... they do have a presence in the market.One of the posts above lament the fact that UA and NW have very little presence in the region, does anyone know if they ever did or what destinations they serve. In any event I suppose the question then becomes for these other carriers; Is it worth it to take on AA in the region?

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

North Eleuthera service has been discontinued.

No it has not. GHB and TCB were discontinued. US Airways Express continues to serve MHH and ELH.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Cozumel and Cancun can be considered the Caribbean. Cancun lies on the Yucatan Peninsula Caribbean coast and Cozumel is a Mexican island in the Caribbean Sea of the Yucatan Peninsula. I would even say both Belize City and Caracas are Caribbean as well. Belize City sits on the coast of Belize which of course borders the Caribbean Sea and Caracas lies just a short drive inland through some tunnels from the Caribbean coast of Venezuela. In fact Simon Bolivar International lies on the coast and is a major airport serving Caracas. On the others however, you are correct.

Yes, you are correct, they are all in the Caribbean coast. Though they are still not "in" the Caribbean. Your allowed your own opinion, of course. So are airlines. USAirways considers Cancun and Cozumel part of the Caribbean, American Airlines does not.

North Eleuthera service has been discontinued.

No it has not. GHB and TCB were discontinued. US Airways Express continues to serve MHH and ELH.


I stand corrected, still served daily from MIA. I don't give it much time left, neither do I think PBI-MHH will last much longer.



a.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Those mexican cities are not part of the caribbean. Their shores may lie in the caribbean sea, but that doesn't make them caribbean. Many South American countries shores lie in the caribbean sea, but it it still South American. Politcally, Surinam and Guyana, though geographically part of South America are politcaly part of the Caribbean. The same is true for Bahamas. They are also politically part of the caribbean, though not quite so geographically.

With American Airlines and Eagle, AA is the dominant US carrier in the caribbean region, hands down.

US Airways recently has moved up to second place, with the introduction of some island destinations. Most of the those destinations are served on weekends only though..

DL/CO are behind US and AA.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

AA is by far the most dominant airline in the Caribbean, thanks to their major hub operations at MIA and SJU. When the US embargo against Cuba is lifted, expect AA to have a HUGE presence at Cuban airports in a literal New York minute.

User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6179 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Delta will add Santo Domingo to it's route map as of June 1st . Flying JFK-SDQ twice daily, I can soon see an ATL-SDQ flight (hopefully). They will aslo expand their SJU ops with twice daily flights to JFK (April 4th). Very little growth but hey something is something.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Is there a reason why LCC (except I think B6) have stayed away from SJU ? I would have thought it would the an ideal place to launch LCC flights to/from.

User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6179 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

LCC that fly into SJU
- ata (MCO, MDW)
- spirit (FLL,MCO)
- song (MCO)
- JetBlue - which you already mentioned (JFK)
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2380 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

"Cape Air flies these flights, but independetly, not as Continental Connection. Continental does have thier codeshare on the flights if you are originating on another Continental flight (i.e. you can fly EWR-SJU-PSE on CO; you cannot call up CO and book SJU-PSE). It operates like USAirways codeshare with Winnair. You can call up USAirways and book PHL-SXM-SAB, but you cannot call them and book SXM-SAB."
------------------------------------------

Wonder why Continental shows them as "Continental Connection operated by Cape Air" on their web site?


http://www.continental.com/company/alliance/capeair.asp

[Edited 2004-01-29 14:54:09]

[Edited 2004-01-29 14:55:25]


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Wonder why Continental shows them as "Continental Connection operated by Cape Air" on their web site?


Because they operate some intra-Florida routes as Continental Connection. This includes TPA-DAB, TPA-SRQ, and MIA-APF. Not all thier routes are operated as Continental Connection, only some.



a.
User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

North Eleuthera service has been discontinued.

No it has not. GHB and TCB were discontinued. US Airways Express continues to serve MHH and ELH.

I stand corrected, still served daily from MIA. I don't give it much time left, neither do I think PBI-MHH will last much longer
.

I don't think the MIA service will last that long either. Most people prefer to connect through NAS and then head to MIA.

The PBI route might survive though especially to MHH. There is not alot of service there besides Continental Connection and Bahamasair (through MHH).
It produces some good yields though.



Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
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