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744ER A Failure?  
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

haha, i know someone has prob. talked abt this bfore, but, since i just joined in Jan, i wanna noe!
Is it a failure?
Sales less than 100 rite?
Is it more efficient than the 744?
Your Opinions


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Now you're really flying
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6942 times:

I would appreciate it when you would write in proper English...

A lot of non-native speakers like me have problems with trying to decode all this kind of chat-language.

Thanks
Frederic


User currently offlineUTA_FLYinghigh From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 6495 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

Translation  Laugh out loud :
It looks like the Boeing 747-400ER is a failure from a sales point of view as less than 100 airframes have been delivered/ordered up to now.
is it really more efficient than the normal 747-400 ?
I would like your thoughts.

UTA, bored as a dead rat.



Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6855 times:

From what I have heard, though I am no expert on the 400 model, it is a very good quality aircraft. I think the problem is that so many customers already have -200 and -300 models that are running just fine. The -400 system is too expensive to buy when you already have a fleet that is running good.

Although, I'm sure there is more to this, but I will let someone else venture there.  Big thumbs up

Cheers!



Crye me a river
User currently offlineLHR340 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

UTA, bored as a dead rat. That's a funny expression, surely if your dead you have nothing to worry about, especially if you're a rat!

LHR340



A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
User currently offlineORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6727 times:

I think the question was more about the ER series of the -400 aircraft and not the entire -400 program, which has obviously been a success.


ORD2PHL


User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

I don't considered it a failure because not many airlines required the capacity or the range or could be both.


Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

Oh God, not another is the XXXX a failure? thread.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

Not a failure at all.

Costs to develop the 747-400ER were very low as it only added an extra fuel tank boosting its range by 400nm, some components were made with some lighter composites and the engines were uprated to provide a 15,000lb. higher MTOW.

It really was a minor upgrade and as a result, development costs were very low.

It was specifically designed for Qantas' needs for its SYD-LAX flights which would periodically not be able to make the westbound route due to very high headwinds. That extra 400nm is just what they needed to ensure that the flight could make it non-stop everytime without an unscheduled fuel-stop.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7422 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

S'ennuyer comme un rat mort...

Translation : to be bored like a dead rat...

UTA did you get this from this French popular expression... ?


The B744ER knows more success in its freighter version, as the range and playload are really increased compared to the -200F.
In its PAX version, it doesn't offer such an increased range compared to the -400 so where is the interests for an airline to buy it ?
the -400 was a real progress in terms of range, engines, electronics etc... compared to the old models -200/300. The difference between the -400 and -400ER is too insignificant...


User currently offlinePER744 From Australia, joined Mar 2003, 405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

For Qantas it has been quite successful, anything that allows them to carry more cargo between Australia and the US will quickly pay for itself.

User currently offlineTexAussie From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

I have been on the 747-400ER between LA and Australia; the Melbourne run from LA was the one most needing the ER on the westbound leg. Once, on the regular 744, we came in 15:30 after wheels-up. That must have been close to the range limit on the standard model. Usually if it looks like it will be that long you make a pit stop for gas along the way.

The interior of the 744ER is fantastic -- like the 777. It seems to climb out to altitude more quickly than the regular one. I was on a very full ER from SA - California">LAX to SYD recently and I believe the stair climb to cruise altitude was much faster than the standard model. I think the 744 is great for long hauls, and the new model is an improvement on a good original design.

I would think that if BA, CX, SA and SQ were still ordering 744s they would get some ERs, but since the future of the line is in question there probably won't be too many more orders in the passenger configuration.



User currently offlineThadocta From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 5253 times:

TexAussie, I really couldn't see the airlines you mentioned - BA, CX, SA and SQ - ordering the -400ER unless it was priced the same as an ordinary -400.

For Qantas it made sense, since flights from the US to Australia were often payload limited (I have seen people bumped when there were still 40 or so seats left empty in order to get the weight down) due to the prevailing winds west-bound. The -400ER whilst not eliminating the need to limit the payload certainly reduced the amount by which it needed to be limited by.

The other carriers you mention do not seem to have flights which fall into this profile, so the ER does not really fall into their fleet planning "must have" list. Of course, if it was priced the sme they would take it, who knows when it might be needed. But it is not something worth spending extra on purely "on spec".

Dave


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

The 744ER is no more efficient than the 747-400, as it is, in fact, a 747-400.


Another addition to the 744ER is the trailing edge wedge, the first real aerodynamic improvement to the wing since a long time back.

N


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Had a long chat with a QF pilot onboard a 744ER (he thought I was a Rolls Royce employee, which was hilarious considering the 744ER is QF's first ever GE powered 747), he said the extra tank makes a difference but the main advantage over the "classic" 747-400 is the extra performance from the engines.

Btw Qantas also fly the 744ER to London, and is the machine of choice on their fourteen hour Antarctica sightseeing missions.

Also worth noting, the 744ER also has the 777 cabin - you knew the 764 had the 777 cabin, but I never heard the 744ER had it too til I got on one.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Any Boeing widebody can be outfitted with the Boeing Signature Interior now... even CO's 762ERs had been.

N


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

Cedarjet,

Did you get the chance to check out the upper deck? I understand the interior has been vastly upgraded as well. Been hoping to see pics of it.

Regards


User currently offlinePaddy From Taiwan, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Thadocta:
Respect needs to be earnt, and my point was valid.

Looks like you haven't "earnt" that much respect either, so I wouldn't be talking...


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3389 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

just to update you on KLM (copied from scramble.nl message boards)

The new KLM Cargo B747-400F PH-CKC will dep PAE on the 3rd of februari 1400 local with 40 tons of cargo and will fly then to YVR to pick up some remaining cargo. ETA at Amsterdam-Schiphol will be in the morning of the 4th of februari depends how quick the cargo will be loaded in YVR



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

The 744ER as a model might be considered a failure if no more are sold, however it was launched with so few orders partly as a building block for the one proposed 747X. It has the stronger wings of the -400F and other structural enhancements. Presumably, if Boeing were to go ahead with the 747 Advanced proposal, the 744ER would serve as the structural basis for that model, as well. So in this context, if Boeing proceded with the new version, the 744ER could be considered a worthwhile investment.

User currently offlineMELflyer From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 9 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Did you get the chance to check out the upper deck? I understand the interior has been vastly upgraded as well. Been hoping to see pics of it.

Was able to spend the best part of 14 hours in the upper deck recently. I certainly was impressed with the interior, especially compared with some of the older QF 744's, which are looking a little tired.

Cheers


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

Was able to spend the best part of 14 hours in the upper deck recently. I certainly was impressed with the interior, especially compared with some of the older QF 744's, which are looking a little tired.

Are the bins "777 style", or more like 737NG bins?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

Are the bins "777 style", or more like 737NG bins?

All Boeing Signature Interior widebodies feature the articulating bins.

The 737 and 757 feature the "BigBins" that look more traditional.

N


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months ago) and read 3910 times:

"the 744ER is QF's first ever GE powered 747)"

QF has had GE powered 744s in the past...acquired from Malaysia (MH).



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3768 times:

Are the bins "777 style", or more like 737NG bins?

All Boeing Signature Interior widebodies feature the articulating bins.

The 737 and 757 feature the "BigBins" that look more traditional.


This I know. What I'm curious of is, are there now 737NG type bins on the upper deck of the 744ER? Or does the upper deck have it's own design? The main deck looks exctly like a 777 interior.


25 BOEING747400 : Can anyone please put several cabin photos of the Qantas 744ER in this airliners.net site to demonstrate the interior improvements over the original 7
26 9V-SVA : QF has GE-powered -400s, from MH and Asiana. VH-OEB to VH-OED(?) 9V-SVA
27 N754pr : Are the three KLM 744 freighters ER's??. I thought they are normal 744F's.
28 ZK-NBT : Are the three KLM 744 freighters ER's??. I thought they are normal 744F's. They are ER's!! No the 744ER is not a failure IMO, while it hasn't had alot
29 TriJetFan1 : How many more miles can the 747-400ER fly compared to its competetors?
30 ConcordeBoy : 744ER still offers less range than the 772ER, Boeing's current flagship in terms of range.... not to mention others. __________________ Faire du ciel
31 Solnabo : 744-ER: 800 km longer than 744! Why call it ER then? Thats nothing, it would be a whole diffrent story if it was 1600 km, right??? *just my 5 öre* Mi
32 ConcordeBoy : Why call it ER then? ...because it has higher fuel capacity than the standard model, as do all of Boeing's "ER" aircraft.
33 Cedarjet : I didn't see the Upper Deck, but as said above by someone else, the main deck looks exactly like the inside of a 777.
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