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Why Can't DAB Or MLB Attract More Airlines?  
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Is it entirely because these airports are in the shadow of the MCO market?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Yes, and the decline of Daytona tourism. Daytona also suffers from Jacksonville relatively nearby with low fares. I believe they also suffered as they were tag-legs on flights to other Florida cities from hubs that no longer exist (such as AA at RDU) plus US Airways dropping the intra-Florida shuttle.

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Yessir, I do believe. DAB is just a shot up I-4, and MLB is a shot down 528 then I-95. I've flown out of all 3, the demand around the beach areas isn't nearly as good as the heart of the area, MCO. Would be nice to see more 88 traffic into both though.

Plus MLB airport sucks royally....International Airport my butt. They're lucky to have Delta there, cause otherwise, it aint worth it. I prefer the sights and sounds of MCO better  Big thumbs up

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineAAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Melbourne's terminal is quite nice... and undergoing some remodeling around the checkpoint area and adding better food concessions.

There is customs on field, hence the international label. I believe Vintage Jets does fly to the Bahamas from there.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

DAB built a new terminal in the early 90's and priced themselves out of the market. When I was at Riddle, I watched most of the airline service slowly leave year after year. i'm not sure what MLB is all about. I do know that most of the coastal towns are graveyards when it's not Spring Break. That probably does not help either.

User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

What I've wondered is when US pulled out of DAB and MLB, why didn't they replace with USX as they did in GNV? Now they have nothin' and GNV is upgrading to regional by USX.


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1845 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

I really like MLB's terminal. There isn't a whole lot too it, but it's nice and classy for such a small airport.

Brett


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5891 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3166 times:
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I agree with PVD757. I, too, am a Riddle grad and watched airline after airline leave DAB. I saw airlines go under like Eastern, Pan Am Express and Presidential. And airlines that just dropped service like AA, CO (sort of), US and even DL.

From what I remember, CO used to serve EWR with 727-200's, 737-200's and 737-100's. Now they use ERJ's. USAir used 737-200's (mainly), F-100's and F-28's to CLT. EA used DC-9-30's and DC-9-50's to ATL. For a very short time, EA Express served TPA with B-99 equipment. Presidential used BAe-146's to IAD as United Express. DL used MD-88's, 727-200's and 737-200's to ATL, MD-88 on the DAB-CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-DFW route, and a DC-9-30 on the DAB-JAX-CVG route. AA had MD-80's serving RDU three times a day. Comair flew to CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO with SWM, EMB and EM2 equipment. Pan Am Express used J31's (and an occasional Dash 7) to MIA. Then, AA Eagle flew J31's and ATR's to MIA from DAB for a little while. Periodically, DAB would get Rich International L-1011's and Carnival 737-200's for charters. Canadian and Intair flew 737's and F-100's, respectively, during the winter and spring. Finally LTU used to fly L-1011-500's into DAB.

Those were the good old days!


User currently offlineJfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

I went to Riddle as well and I can confirm that traffic into and out of DAB is pathetic. It has a lot to do with the new terminal, but also a lot to do with the departure of General Electric from Daytona Beach. Also, Daytona is generally on the decline after enjoying many years as a hot spot for tourism. Thank an out-of-touch mayor, and a savvy city council for getting rid of many of the "big events" that used to occur in Daytona. While they did have problems, it brought in tourists.
DL flights to ATL are really all that's needed for DAB at this point. Even the flights to EWR were downgraded to ERJs

PJ


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

I'll add my name to the Riddle/Daytona grad list, although likely earlier than others (December 1982). While I was at Riddle, we had Delta and Eastern as our main carriers, DL ran 4 daily flights to ATL (usually 727's), while EA ran a number of trips: 7 to ATL, 4 to JAX, 1 to LGA, and 2 to MCO (from the 6/1/81 schedule). While I was there, Piedmont began service to MCO, continuing on to CLT (my roommate and I attended the inaugural at the airport). Later on, PI added JAX and CLT nonstops. Also, we had Dolphin as a commuter, and PBA started right before I graduated.

As others have stated, the primary problem with DAB was its close proximity to MCO, and MCO's rock bottom fares.

Also, there was a shuttle bus operation that ran from an office on Midway Avenue down to MCO (I took it a couple of times myself); so there was that competition, as well.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

I remember reading about a year ago, (some) airline was to start transatlantic B763 service to MLB. Not sure of the company but it was to help funnel the cruise ships. Anyone else know the status or the airline?


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

The answer is simple....

1. Not enough traffic. I have seen where for one week not a soul flew the Pan Am service.

2. LOW YIELDS! If it costs more they will drive to MCO to save a $$$.

Hence... MONEY LOSING FOR AIRLINES!

A C Vitale


User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2981 times:

I was in Brevard County not too long ago and I noticed that there are signs posted, generally near State Road 528 directing people to Orlando Int'l, only the signs just say "Int'l Airport" and direct people toward MCO, as if it is the only airport serving the area. I imagine the folks running MLB are less than happy about those signs. I think they should at least list both airports rather than just MCO. It is only about a 45 minute drive to MCO, so most folks living there tend to drive over to MCO rather than use MLB due to usually lower fares and more flights.


Bill in ATL
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2974 times:

MLB had an LCC. Why didn't the Spirit flights work?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2951 times:

i would like to see more.

You have service from MIA, FLL, PBI to a long list of destinations to go anywhere other than ATL and EWR from MLB or DAB you have to go to MCO.

makes no sense!


User currently offlineIMisspiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6281 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

But it does make sense. DAB and MLB are a quite short drive to MCO and the fact is, neither have the O&D traffic to support anything beyond what is.

Scoot your behind out to where a drive to the airport is 300 miles away and then complain. Though I anly have to drive 50 miles, I refer to many in the western US.



Quit calling an airport ramp "Tarmac" and a taxiway "runway".
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

As a lifetime resident of Daytona Beach, I can attest to the significant decline in airline traffic. In the late 80's we had around 8 carriers, and that's when you had to walk from the terminal across the tarmac to the air stairs. We put in a $22 million dollar modern terminal and we go down in a short time to just Delta. It's a damn shame, but as has been pointed out Daytona's ever insightful leaders decided to look the gift horse in the mouth and kill some of what was our lifeblood. That, and having lived here and comparison priced tickets for in/out bound friends, MCO is by far the cheapest, with Daytona usually being about twice the going rate out of Orlando. I don't think JAX and MLB can take credit for DAB's downfall, that belongs solely to MCO imo. Put it this way, two of the majors had contracts with Daytona until recently, which they were fulfilling monetarily, but they weren't using the terminal at all. That fact alone should put it in perspective somewhat.

When we used to have 727, 737, 757, DC-9, Fokker 100, BAe 146, MD-80 and occassional L-1011 traffic, it's very sad indeed that now our soul commercial traffic is MD-80 series and CRJ's.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

I think Spirit flew FLL-MLB-DCA once a day.... probably not the most profitable route they've flown....

-n


User currently offlineAirBuffalo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2807 times:


Yes, Spirit flew DCA-MLB-FLL daily for about a year. They got a sweetheart deal from the local govnt -- I think it was @ a $1 million "package" of reduced fees, etc. as long as they kept at least 2 flights a day. Frequency was reduced over the summer of 2001 and suspended entirely after Sept 11.

They tried to capitalize on some moderate tourism traffic along with significant business traffic, since there are numerous Dept. Of Defense and other fed. government contractors located in the area (note it's very close to the Kennedy Space Center, etc.)

In fact, Delta countered with a "direct" MLB-DCA flight for a while. MLB-ATL-DCA that departed MLB around the same time the MLB-DCA Spirit flight did.

The Spirit service, facilities, and reliability were pretty terrible, however, and they never filled the planes, even at $140 rt.

MLB is a nice small airport but saving 40% on a nonstop in MCO versus connecting in ATL is well worth it.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

Having said all that, I think there is a untapped weekend seasonal market that exists. I thought the AC YYZ flight that was announced only to be shelved is exactly what DAB can support. It would start there and if it did well, more airlines and flights would start as the industry recognizes the market. The city has over 100,000 residents if I remember and a few affluent areas nearby to support at least a few more flights. I think 3 CLT CRJ's would do well. I also think that Independance Air would be wise to run 3 or 4 trips to IAD. A LCC with cheap connections to all those northeast markets will help fill those 50 seaters in a heartbeat. MLB, with the Carnival and Disney Cruises is basically in the same position. MLB also boasts the NASA "attractions" and the fact that there is no other airport with scheduled airline service to the south all the way to PBI. Pt. St. Lucie is the only exception with a couple of 9 seater intra-florida routes.

User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

"MLB had an LCC. Why didn't the Spirit flights work?"

Spirit panicked after 9/11 and in an effort to stop the immediate bleeding from the effects of 9/11 pulled out of the market which only operated 3 flights a day.

"I remember reading about a year ago, (some) airline was to start transatlantic B763 service to MLB"

Yes starting in Sept. A company named Wiggins Group will begin 3 weekly flights from London-Manston to MLB. The equipment types will vary from 763, 333, and 742 (I believe).


These airports make a lot of money for DL and DL thanks all the airlines that stay away.
MLB is the only station in DL's system where DL accounts for all revenue from a market. Outside of the 4 quarters following 9/11, DL has consistently made money. The local business's greatly support the service from MLB and DAB, the rest of the seats are filler and low yield for leisure traffic, but the bottom line is DL doesn't need the leisure traffic in these cities. Both cities have consistently been around 85%-90% load factor for DL over the past year. And there is no need to compete with oneself in a market adding service to other cities will only be competing with DL.
Other airlines won't start service in fear of only attracting the leisure traveler as it will be very difficult to pull all the business travelers (ie Medallion fliers) from DL.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
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