AAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
Yes, and the decline of Daytona tourism. Daytona also suffers from Jacksonville relatively nearby with low fares. I believe they also suffered as they were tag-legs on flights to other Florida cities from hubs that no longer exist (such as AA at RDU) plus US Airways dropping the intra-Florida shuttle.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
Yessir, I do believe. DAB is just a shot up I-4, and MLB is a shot down 528 then I-95. I've flown out of all 3, the demand around the beach areas isn't nearly as good as the heart of the area, MCO. Would be nice to see more 88 traffic into both though.
Plus MLB airport sucks royally....International Airport my butt. They're lucky to have Delta there, cause otherwise, it aint worth it. I prefer the sights and sounds of MCO better
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3452 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
DAB built a new terminal in the early 90's and priced themselves out of the market. When I was at Riddle, I watched most of the airline service slowly leave year after year. i'm not sure what MLB is all about. I do know that most of the coastal towns are graveyards when it's not Spring Break. That probably does not help either.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6141 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3657 times:
I agree with PVD757. I, too, am a Riddle grad and watched airline after airline leave DAB. I saw airlines go under like Eastern, Pan Am Express and Presidential. And airlines that just dropped service like AA, CO (sort of), US and even DL.
From what I remember, CO used to serve EWR with 727-200's, 737-200's and 737-100's. Now they use ERJ's. USAir used 737-200's (mainly), F-100's and F-28's to CLT. EA used DC-9-30's and DC-9-50's to ATL. For a very short time, EA Express served TPA with B-99 equipment. Presidential used BAe-146's to IAD as United Express. DL used MD-88's, 727-200's and 737-200's to ATL, MD-88 on the DAB-CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-DFW route, and a DC-9-30 on the DAB-JAX-CVG route. AA had MD-80's serving RDU three times a day. Comair flew to CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO with SWM, EMB and EM2 equipment. Pan Am Express used J31's (and an occasional Dash 7) to MIA. Then, AA Eagle flew J31's and ATR's to MIA from DAB for a little while. Periodically, DAB would get Rich International L-1011's and Carnival 737-200's for charters. Canadian and Intair flew 737's and F-100's, respectively, during the winter and spring. Finally LTU used to fly L-1011-500's into DAB.
Jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4276 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
I went to Riddle as well and I can confirm that traffic into and out of DAB is pathetic. It has a lot to do with the new terminal, but also a lot to do with the departure of General Electric from Daytona Beach. Also, Daytona is generally on the decline after enjoying many years as a hot spot for tourism. Thank an out-of-touch mayor, and a savvy city council for getting rid of many of the "big events" that used to occur in Daytona. While they did have problems, it brought in tourists.
DL flights to ATL are really all that's needed for DAB at this point. Even the flights to EWR were downgraded to ERJs
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3586 times:
I'll add my name to the Riddle/Daytona grad list, although likely earlier than others (December 1982). While I was at Riddle, we had Delta and Eastern as our main carriers, DL ran 4 daily flights to ATL (usually 727's), while EA ran a number of trips: 7 to ATL, 4 to JAX, 1 to LGA, and 2 to MCO (from the 6/1/81 schedule). While I was there, Piedmont began service to MCO, continuing on to CLT (my roommate and I attended the inaugural at the airport). Later on, PI added JAX and CLT nonstops. Also, we had Dolphin as a commuter, and PBA started right before I graduated.
As others have stated, the primary problem with DAB was its close proximity to MCO, and MCO's rock bottom fares.
Also, there was a shuttle bus operation that ran from an office on Midway Avenue down to MCO (I took it a couple of times myself); so there was that competition, as well.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
AV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1417 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3523 times:
I remember reading about a year ago, (some) airline was to start transatlantic B763 service to MLB. Not sure of the company but it was to help funnel the cruise ships. Anyone else know the status or the airline?
TLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3472 times:
I was in Brevard County not too long ago and I noticed that there are signs posted, generally near State Road 528 directing people to Orlando Int'l, only the signs just say "Int'l Airport" and direct people toward MCO, as if it is the only airport serving the area. I imagine the folks running MLB are less than happy about those signs. I think they should at least list both airports rather than just MCO. It is only about a 45 minute drive to MCO, so most folks living there tend to drive over to MCO rather than use MLB due to usually lower fares and more flights.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3391 times:
As a lifetime resident of Daytona Beach, I can attest to the significant decline in airline traffic. In the late 80's we had around 8 carriers, and that's when you had to walk from the terminal across the tarmac to the air stairs. We put in a $22 million dollar modern terminal and we go down in a short time to just Delta. It's a damn shame, but as has been pointed out Daytona's ever insightful leaders decided to look the gift horse in the mouth and kill some of what was our lifeblood. That, and having lived here and comparison priced tickets for in/out bound friends, MCO is by far the cheapest, with Daytona usually being about twice the going rate out of Orlando. I don't think JAX and MLB can take credit for DAB's downfall, that belongs solely to MCO imo. Put it this way, two of the majors had contracts with Daytona until recently, which they were fulfilling monetarily, but they weren't using the terminal at all. That fact alone should put it in perspective somewhat.
When we used to have 727, 737, 757, DC-9, Fokker 100, BAe 146, MD-80 and occassional L-1011 traffic, it's very sad indeed that now our soul commercial traffic is MD-80 series and CRJ's.
AirBuffalo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 3298 times:
Yes, Spirit flew DCA-MLB-FLL daily for about a year. They got a sweetheart deal from the local govnt -- I think it was @ a $1 million "package" of reduced fees, etc. as long as they kept at least 2 flights a day. Frequency was reduced over the summer of 2001 and suspended entirely after Sept 11.
They tried to capitalize on some moderate tourism traffic along with significant business traffic, since there are numerous Dept. Of Defense and other fed. government contractors located in the area (note it's very close to the Kennedy Space Center, etc.)
In fact, Delta countered with a "direct" MLB-DCA flight for a while. MLB-ATL-DCA that departed MLB around the same time the MLB-DCA Spirit flight did.
The Spirit service, facilities, and reliability were pretty terrible, however, and they never filled the planes, even at $140 rt.
MLB is a nice small airport but saving 40% on a nonstop in MCO versus connecting in ATL is well worth it.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3452 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 1 hour ago) and read 3262 times:
Having said all that, I think there is a untapped weekend seasonal market that exists. I thought the AC YYZ flight that was announced only to be shelved is exactly what DAB can support. It would start there and if it did well, more airlines and flights would start as the industry recognizes the market. The city has over 100,000 residents if I remember and a few affluent areas nearby to support at least a few more flights. I think 3 CLT CRJ's would do well. I also think that Independance Air would be wise to run 3 or 4 trips to IAD. A LCC with cheap connections to all those northeast markets will help fill those 50 seaters in a heartbeat. MLB, with the Carnival and Disney Cruises is basically in the same position. MLB also boasts the NASA "attractions" and the fact that there is no other airport with scheduled airline service to the south all the way to PBI. Pt. St. Lucie is the only exception with a couple of 9 seater intra-florida routes.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
"MLB had an LCC. Why didn't the Spirit flights work?"
Spirit panicked after 9/11 and in an effort to stop the immediate bleeding from the effects of 9/11 pulled out of the market which only operated 3 flights a day.
"I remember reading about a year ago, (some) airline was to start transatlantic B763 service to MLB"
Yes starting in Sept. A company named Wiggins Group will begin 3 weekly flights from London-Manston to MLB. The equipment types will vary from 763, 333, and 742 (I believe).
These airports make a lot of money for DL and DL thanks all the airlines that stay away.
MLB is the only station in DL's system where DL accounts for all revenue from a market. Outside of the 4 quarters following 9/11, DL has consistently made money. The local business's greatly support the service from MLB and DAB, the rest of the seats are filler and low yield for leisure traffic, but the bottom line is DL doesn't need the leisure traffic in these cities. Both cities have consistently been around 85%-90% load factor for DL over the past year. And there is no need to compete with oneself in a market adding service to other cities will only be competing with DL.
Other airlines won't start service in fear of only attracting the leisure traveler as it will be very difficult to pull all the business travelers (ie Medallion fliers) from DL.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.