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Plan To Save US Airways Falls Apart  
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4107-2004Feb1.html

here we go again! more bad outlooks on US Airways!  Insane

The only common thread between all the aviation discussion forums out there and analysts is the idea of a possible merger with UA. Everywhere I look I see it. Check it out!

Sadly Siegel didn't comment to the Post in this article. He's probably not getting enough sleep at night and missed the phone call.

FA4UA


The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Possible merger w/ United...how could that be, I don't see anyone suggesting that. The brutal honest fact here, is the US economy and the other airlines NEED US to go under. There is way too much capacity in the system, its been a problem the last 3 years. There needs to be one less player and the natural laws of economics to come in and figure out the rest.

BTW, how could UAL ever be in a position to absorb US now? There is really nothing common between the airlines.. the Airbuses have 2 different engine types, US does not need CLT, PIT or even PHL w/ SW moving in at this point. Not to mention A330s.... I think what has been agreed by everyone is that except for the Shuttle, prized LGA slots and some gates at PHL, US has very little to offer other carriers.


User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6645 times:

Oh and to add to my above post, United has the best kick ass assets of any airline out there right now, LHR, Pacific routes, 747-400s, ORD, SFO, LAX, may I go on...point being all their resources should be directed at keeping this!

User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

As a UA employee, I agree with Deltaflyertoo; the less seats out there, the better for the remaining carriers. UA would be in much worse shape if it had to take on USairways. If US went under, it would be great news for United Airlines even if UA don't have the cash to buy any assets.

US employees, hope you guys make it and a lot of things can still happen.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

US has the North/South covered up and down the East coast. That is UA's weak spot domestically. Whether it's a proper merger or whether it will be a fire sale, these slots and routes on the East Coast are something UA will be interested in as well as the Carribean flying since we have so little exposure there.

Again I say: Gawd help us with seniority integration if it does become a proper merger (a la second to last paragraph on pg. 3 in the article above).

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6550 times:

LCCs vs USairways is like putting a Black Widow in a jar full of Fire Ants. The Black Widow will fight strong, but eventually the ants will kill it.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6540 times:

True US has a huge east coast presence, but UAL has done so well to this point w/ out the east coast presence. For the industry to stablize, management at all airlines need to realize that to move forward for the foreseeable future, there are going to be holes in their route system. For United that will be east coast. For CO, NW and AA to a lesser extent, that will be out west.

United isn't in its problems now because of a lack of an east coast presence. It was poor management, inefficiencies across the system from pay scales, to pricing to how a/c were utlized. If UAL could fix these things and get to profitiability, it will find it doesn't need east coast.


User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6511 times:

well said Deltaflyer...

but for those of us (like me) who want UA to be the biggest and have the most comprehensive route structure you're words aren't very inspiring!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

FA4UA: LOL! Well someday, you never know! Really, this is an exciting time in the industry that the airlines haven't seen since the late 80s so anything can happen..

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6294 times:


I feel like I am reading about TWA all over again, they sold the LHR slots to American to make cash, and well, the rest is history.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6174 times:

UAL is still in bankruptcy, they are not buying anything untill UAL takes care of their creditors debt.

UAL management is not running things alone, the bankruptcy court and their creditors have to approve every decsion of UAL's management.

Why on Earth would anyone allow UAL to use their resources towards anything but restructuring their current operation and concentrating on debt reduction, not happening.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

Sadly... it looks like the end is near for US Airways.  Sad

User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

Very depressing, poor US Airways, and all the people I know in the US Airways family...I wish for a miracle, but the likelyhood of it is not great...


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5648 times:

The article is correct that unless US unions give on work rules--not pay, which Siegel has said elsewhere he does not want to cut--but work rules, it's the end. By the June 30 credit deadline, probably. *Of course* Bronner is "looking at this like an investor." What other viewpoint should he take? He's got the retirement funds of 230,000 people to worry about!

"Seniority integration." Talk about something that's absolutely untenable in the post-9/11 environment. That prospect alone could prevent other carriers from buying so much as a US A320 spare tire until US liquidates.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineAlitaliaORD From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

I really hope it dosnt happen because the times i have flown with them, I have really enjoyed their product. But if they did go under, what airline would take Philadelphia and "re-hub" it?


Joy To The World, All The Boys and Girls, Joy to the Fishes in the Deep Blue Sea, Joy to You and Me
User currently offlineIad777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 121 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

Lower capacity doesn't necessarily translate into less airlines. What we need is real competition in the airline industry and that will lower prices, create less esoteric pricing-route strucutre, and improve airline service.

I personally love UA and as I'm from DC, I don't want to see US Airways go bankrupt, especially because the shuttle is awesome. But let's face it, what plagues the airlines is how poorly run they are, not the fact that are too many of them. Better managmenet and true competition will help solve the problems.

Hope UA emerges from this whole debacle stronger than before and hope it increases its IAD-Europe services.

Cheers



History shall be kind to me; for I intend to write it -WSC
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

In other posts, several people give US 4-9 months before going under and I agree. UA and US, was tried before and didn't happen and won't due to UA's bankruptcy, antitrust and that better off waiting for end of US. The problem for US is that they do have a heavy presence in the Eastern US. Eastern US airports have killer ops costs and frequent delays. US has a lot of short flights that are very expensive per seat mile to operate, have heavy legacy costs, high pay structure, tremendous competition from LLC's like JetBlue, Southwest, ATA.
I also think one surprise big gainer from the end of US may be NW as NW in pretty good financial shape, US and NW both use Airbus planes, NW could add eastern and western airport gates and expand service to feed back and forth their system in the upper midwest, pacific northwest, Asia. NW has hubs in DTW and Minn., both airports don't have a lot of traffic problems so could take over some of US's routes too.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

US Airways has the third-largest presence of any airline.
At LGA, I thought US was the largest.  Confused

The article is correct that unless US unions give on work rules--not pay, which Siegel has said elsewhere he does not want to cut--but work rules, it's the end.

Can you explain WORK RULES? I always see this phrase but have never really understood it.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

As put so eloquently by Happy Gilmore: "So long sucka!"

When you look at the strong measures that have been put in place by US airlines that have successfully emerged from Chapter 11 you realize how weak US was in dealing with their bankruptcy. They allowed their unions to set the rules, the management was not forceful at all in labor negotiations. They didn't slash PIT as much as it needed to be. They were too late in their orders of regional jets and the orders were too small. Express needed to be drastically expanded and in my opinion, US needed to come out with a route map looking like that of Continental where the only cities that got mainline service were ones that could realistically support it. The short sectors aren't a real problem because US had a virtual monopoly in many high-priced northeastern markets. As for going against the LCCs to Florida, US did not go cutthroat in its tactics--as AA and DL have.

One less airline in the US is a very good thing for the rest of the industry. Although I feel sorry for the employees of the company if it really does go under, they can be held partially responsible for electing union officials that took advantage of the weak US management and drove the company into the ground.

I feel like I am reading about TWA all over again, they sold the LHR slots to American to make cash, and well, the rest is history.

The sale of the LHR routes is hardly an auxiliary factor in the downfall of TWA.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

I also think one surprise big gainer from the end of US may be NW as NW in pretty good financial shape, US and NW both use Airbus planes, NW could add eastern and western airport gates and expand service to feed back and forth their system in the upper midwest, pacific northwest, Asia. NW has hubs in DTW and Minn., both airports don't have a lot of traffic problems so could take over some of US's routes too.

LTBEWR, you've answered AlitaliaORD's question, so I don't have to.  Smile Just a few notes, though. PIT is a goner and CLT is questionable, if US goes Ch. 7. But PHL has real value as a network carrier hub even in the new post-9/11 economic situation. Lots of O & D to support higher-yield transatlantic routes that WN doesn't affect.

727--PiedmontGirl is the best person to answer your question. But I can give a short answer: work rules refer to how many hours pilots fly, how many people of which work group are required by collective bargaining to service a plane, and other issues of productivity. PIGirl can tell some real productivity horror stories about US Airways.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

Article in today's Wall Street Journal mentions US Airways is trying to cancel a large regional jet order they placed within the last year or two year ago, the rest they are trying to get transfered to a non affiliate regional operator who may operate for US Airways in the future.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

From 1988 to 1995, five US Airways planes crashed, creating a major challenge for Edwin I. Colodny and Seth E. Schofield, who were chief executives of the airline.

What were these crashes? The only ones I can remember are the 737 that crashed outside CLT and another 737 (I think) that crashed at PIT.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

another 737 (I think) that crashed at PIT

Yes, that was a 737 that crashed near PIT. US 427, ORD-PIT. N513AU was the reg. number.


670


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13560 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4925 times:
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US Airways is trying to cancel a large regional jet order they placed within the last year or two year ago, the rest they are trying to get transfered to a non affiliate regional operator who may operate for US Airways in the future.

Could this represent a possible shift of that order to ACA..errr, Independence Air?  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

US Airways is trying to get Mesa to pick up part of the CRJ-700 order. The Embraer 170's will still be delivered (if they ever get certified) to US Airways.


670


25 Gregg : 737 crash in Pit 737 crash into a commuter in LAX DC-9 crash at CLT in bad weather. I think both at LGA: 737 taking off in snow, F-28 landing in snow
26 727LOVER : F-28 was taking off.
27 STT757 : Yeah US Air got the knick name US Scare after two incidents of their aircraft going off the runways at LGA, DL and CO also had their jets go off the r
28 727LOVER : But DL and CO didn't have fatalities.
29 Post contains links NKP S2 : But I can give a short answer: work rules refer to how many hours pilots fly, how many people of which work group are required by collective bargainin
30 NKP S2 : 737 crash into a commuter in LAX FWIW, that was an incident caused by a traffic controller.
31 Klwright69 : Yes, US had a spate of unfortunate accidents in a relatively short period of time. But those were a very long time ago. Yeah, I have heard folks say "
32 DCA-ROCguy : Though they ranged from "reaching" to absolutely false. Haven't heard a peep from said poster on the subject following a debate several weeks ago rega
33 NKP S2 : The thread shows that you questioned a few of her figures; she gave many more figures that you did not challenge Because I did not disagree with it al
34 Post contains images Tommy767 : Ugh. Its terrible to see US AIRWAYS go down. They were becoming such a great airline with a brand new fleet. Only if they used better cost cutting met
35 Freshlove1 : MESA will take the 700's if the proposition is offered,we have tremendous financial backing so to take on more planes is no big deal. We are adding 1
36 PVD757 : If Mesa gets a chance to bid on US's assets, they will get the scraps that no one else wants. They are not going to outbid any of the other players fo
37 Freshlove1 : You might be surprised Johnny O somehow comes up with the money needed for what he wants.
38 PVD757 : Johnny O knows one thing: how to fly for someone else. Period. End of Discussion. P.S. I don't care about "their" service in New Mexico.
39 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yeah, then Johnny O will be looking for someone else to fly a whole boatload of RJ's if US flops.
40 Planemaker : We are adding 1 RJ to the fleet every week so the finance team must be doing a good job. No... BBD is financing the Mesa RJ's because A) Mesa/Freedom
41 SlamClick : FWIW the US Scare nickname has always been there. There are some people so devoid of imagination or cleverness that they should never attempt to origi
42 Cloudy : But that is their holy right. All our laws exist to protect the rich. Sorry USAirways employees, you are going to be sacrificed to protect that ROI. -
43 Freshlove1 : Johnny O. has a back up plan for the RJ's should US go under, its called a UA hub in IAD thats where they will go if US service goes under. Employees
44 PVD757 : Johnny O needs to think about IAD. Air Wisconsin is moving in. ACA is not getting bought out either. Did anyone tell him that ACA owns the commuter ga
45 Post contains images Matt D :
46 Post contains links FA4UA : latest from Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10905-2004Feb3.html my favorite part from author Steven Pearlstein: Revive
47 Bucky707 : "Good to know that I'm not the only one that thinks this! Again though, lord help UA/US if it does come down to integrating seniority! On Paper, or ra
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