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DL: How Do They Fly Full From JFK Internationally?  
User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

How does DL manage to fill all of those 763 to various European destinations? They have very little feeder traffic into JFK.

AA787


ET In NYC
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuanchie From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Don't forget about the planes that fly in to JFK like Alitalia and Aeromexico that technically are delta flights too! Although I don't believe there are that many mainline flights there, i know they have upped the service using comair. When I came back from Italy, I flew through JFK on Alitalia, connected on Delta to ATL and off to JAX. I would imagine this is pretty rare but it was a bargain and I can tell you first hand the Delta part of the concourse was packed. Hopefully someone else can enlighten us on how Delta feeds their flights to Europe.


God, forgive me for who I am, and help me be the man I want to be.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Do you really think that the NYC market requires a bunch of feeder traffic to sustain international flights???

User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

They have been adding alot of Connection service into the airport, and with the recent expansion announced it should even further help keep the loads heavy (by saying keep i'm guessing they are heavy loads). I know that JFK loads from STL have done pretty well in the past and its due in large part to the european connections available through JFK since we no longer have LGWBig thumbs up

User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

New York is the world's largest and most lucrative O&D market, not to mention, one of the biggest airline markets globally. Therefore, Delta has relatively little trouble filling its JFK to Europe flights. Second, as the third biggest airline, Delta has a sizeable share of the corporate travel market, even in these much leaner times. Lastly, Delta code shares with Alitalia, Air France, Aeromexico, Korean Air, and CSA. Delta can provide feed into these airlines hubs in Paris, Mexico City, Seoul, Milan, Rome, and Prague.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

NYC is a City of 8-9 Million People, when you include everyone within the Metro Tri State area (Long Island, Northern New Jersey, Westchester, Rockland, Orange Counties, Fairfield County Connecticut) your talking 25 million people.

It's all O&D, meaning the majority of DL's Trans-Atlantic travelers either live in the Tri State area or are visiting the Tri State area from Europe.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

I understand what all of you are saying...I live in the metro area. Its just that everyone makes a huge deal about feeder traffic and it seems that DL is lacking that at JFK for the most part.

AA787



ET In NYC
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

It also helps to be the only US carrier on some routes such as VCE, ATH, IST, SVO, NCE.

It also didn't hurt to have inherited an established operation on these routes as well.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

Plus the 763 is perfect for DL's JFK Transatlantic flights.

User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

New York is a huge city, where many people go overseas to from Europe for business. Do not underestimate New York. It is also a huge city where much of the population goes to. The demand for flights from JFK to Europe is high, since it is one of the most worldly cities of the U.S. Big grin


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

"Its just that everyone makes a huge deal about feeder traffic and it seems that DL is lacking that at JFK for the most part."

This is true for places like Atlanta, Detroit and Cincinnati, where the Cities themselves would not be able to support the route networks that their hub airports operate.

However large markets like Los Angeles and New York do not need feeder traffic, the majority of the potential passengers are withing driving distances.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

New York is the world's largest and most lucrative O&D market

Tokyo is a larger O&D market.



a.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

Also keep in mind that most of the routes DL serves are served by other carriers as well. So beteen everyone, there is ALOT of capacity between NYC and Europe.

STT757, just wondering, would you consdier a person going from FCO-NYC via FRA on LH O&D? As long as they are not connecting in NYC, they are O&D right?


User currently offlineCOncordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

He'd be O&D for NYC and ROM, but not FRA

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

O & D stands for " Originating" and "Destination".

So their destination is NY, it doesn't matter how many connections they make.

If their NY's heading someplace out of town, they are on the originating end.

O&D means people who either begin or end their trips at a certain place.

Atlanta for instance has a heavy amount of connections, meaning people fly through Atlanta to go someplace else. Atlanta is not their home nor their destination, they are just connecting.

In NY few people connect, because of it's location geographically and because of the heavy O&D traffic.

CO has been an exception, they have a rather large hub at EWR. Even with CO's EWR hub it's overwhelmingly served by passengers who either live in the tri-State area or are visiting the tri-State are.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

STT757,

Nearly 45% of all traffic at ATL is O&D. ATL is a big O&D market, 7th biggest in the country.

Jeremy


User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

"NYC is one of the most worldly cities in the US". LOL!
Who would be more worldly? My guess is 60%+ of all O&D trans-Atlantic traffic begins and ends in NYC. Just a guess- but its probably not to far off. NYC is the most European city in the states and has the largest ex-pat communites to Europe, etc.

Sorry if I sound too pro-New York, but lets not downplay it size and importance.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

"Nearly 45% of all traffic at ATL is O&D"

45% is miniscule compared to places like EWR, JFK, LAX etc..

Which was the point, ATL is more dependent on people connecting from elsewhere to fill International routes than people who are actualy living or heading to ATL.

The City of Atlanta itself could not support a fraction of the International routes that Hartsfield supports without connecting passengers, it's not a knock on Atlanta.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

45% is still a lot of O & D though. That is what about 15-20 million people a year. That is more than a lot airports total travelers. Have you ever seen DL's International Lobby at around 3:30-4pm, it is ridiculous.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineJfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3390 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

AA787,
Last time I checked, DL has a pretty good feed into JFK from throughout the U.S.

BOS, PHL, DCA, PIT, Norfolk, RDU, SAV*, JAX, Greensboro*, MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, ATL, DFW, STL, ORD, CLE, Columbus, DTW, DEN*, PHX, SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN*, Toronto.

I'm sure there are others. But like I said, a pretty good feed. Much better than American, which still manages to fill there 777s to LHR and CDG.

Just a different persepective I guess.

PJ


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

My guess is 60%+ of all O&D trans-Atlantic traffic begins and ends in NYC. Just a guess- but its probably not to far off.

Your way off, IMO. The figure is most definitley closer to 30-35%. You still have huge trans-Atlantic O&D markets, like WAS, MIA, BOS, CHI, SFO, and LAX. No way NYC account for that much.

[Edited 2004-02-06 00:33:57]


a.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3667 times:

I just checked the Port Authority's website for airport statistics..

Total O&D for both Domestic and International (they did not separate Domestic from International)

Laguardia= 92% O&D traffic

Newark= 78% O&D traffic

JFK= 67% O&D traffic.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

But don't forget, ATL handles more than all those airports. Let's multiply:

Newark's PAX # by .78% = ~28,000,000
ATL's PAX # by .45 = ~32,000,000

Therefore, ATL is a higher O&D market than EWR, though NYC has three airports. 45% of 70,000,000+ PAX a year is a HUGE number.

Jeremy


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Therefore, ATL is a higher O&D market than EWR, though NYC has three airports.

No, it's not. Atlanta is a larger O&D airport than EWR, not market.



a.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

if it's O&D numbers you want, peep this thread  Big grin

__________________
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy


25 Jfklganyc : If u r going to compare markets, u must combine JFK, LGA, EWR into one market and then compare it to ATL. It's not fare (and its looking at it in a sl
26 Thrust : Keep in mind these loads for Delta will grow larger, as everyone knows Delta plans to increase the size of their hub at JFK.
27 Cedarjet : Delta's JFK service to Europe serves New York and the surrounding area, and that's it. There may be some Delta flights into the airport from other par
28 Flyguy1 : Cedarjet: Of course many of the passengers on Delta's European flights from JFK, are from the NYC area. But a good amount of connecting passengers are
29 DeltaMIA : What do you mean they aren't feeding the transatlantic system. That is why all of DL's destinations from JFK have at least one flight that arrives aro
30 Flairport : DeltaMIA...you stole my point! People from a city with a lack of intl. service will tend to double connect, I think... so, DL from SAN-SVO, for exampl
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