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AirTran: No New Cities In 2004  
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

AirTran CEO Joe Leonard said yesterday that no new cities would be added in 2004. 20% ASM growth will come from adding increased frequencies and "connecting the dots" among cities already served. He expects 2 or 3 new cities will be added in 2005.

[Edited 2004-02-06 20:17:27]


"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLearjet25 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 79 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

Sounds smart to me. I think they have it right. I am actually slightly concerned about what adding a new type (737) will do to their structure. As far as maintenance and such.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

What happened with the pick our next city poll they did on the web site?


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

Learjet:

He addressed that issue too. Here is the link.

http://www.wallstreetwebcasting.com/webcast/rjgac/aai/



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineSebwhite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Top pick for connecting the dots:

BUF/ROC - BOS

What else?


User currently offlineRareBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

Oh well. I guess us CHS travellers will have to suffer at least another year with these absurd airfares.


Illegitimus non carborundum
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Oh well! This is no new city this year of 2004 and it should need to get with their new city next year of 2005. It should need to wait and please have be patient with them.

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Didn't WN say "No new cities" at one time, and then shock us all w/ PHL?

User currently offlineCVGpilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

As far as I know as of the 5th of FEB Air Tran is running 2 NEW flight a day out of DAY-BOS or JFK, cant remember....


Globally Yours
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4493 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

Top pick for connecting the dots: BUF/ROC - BOS What else?

That'd be my favorite.  Smile Only low-fare service will restart these once-thriving, now moribund routes with their handful of US ERJ's. Some other good candidates:

MSP-BWI. There's been no low-fare service between the Twin Cities and the DC-Balto Metroglom since Sun Country. Also MSP-DFW, if AirTran is up for a fight.
DAY-BWI
MEM-BWI
FNT-BWI. Despite Southwest at both DTW and BWI, they don't fly between the two cities. Spirit doesn't fly DTW-DCA. Their loss. Another opening for AirTran.
MSP-BOS. Northwest would probably go apes--t on this one, so DOJ would have to watch closely.
PHL-MSP and PHL-DFW. Two routes WN won't be flying from PHL.  Smile

Jim


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4493 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Also, if AirTran can snag some more LGA slots:

JAX-LGA No JetBlue in Jaguar country.
MKE-LGA No JetBlue here either.
DAY-LGA. I can just hear the refugees from Cincy revving up their motors to drive up I-75 to fly this route.
MCI-LGA. No Vanguard any more.




User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

Yes, that is one of last time was flies out of MCI to LGA with Vanguard from last 2 years ago and it was shutdown with their company.

User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

CVGpilot and DCA-ROCguy:

AirTran announced that they will begin daily DAY-BWI service a few months ago. Twice daily flights start on 11 Feb. with a 717 and a CRJ.

[Edited 2004-02-06 23:01:46]

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

Right now, the airline isn't looking for any new cities.

I seriously doubt they were looking for eight new cities in 2002, but it happened.

In any event, while they may not be adding cities, they'll certainly be adding frequencies and routes. And routes, after all, are what's important (if they're not overdoing the service, anyway...).



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4493 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

I agree, Elwood. AirTran would probably respond to market changes, as they did in 2002. That in addition to whatever dot-connecting they do.

For instance, if US Airways goes Ch. 7, AirTran will probably add several new cities fairly quickly. I think SYR, ALB, RIC, IND, SDF, and PVD are probably good candidates. There's demand out there, it just won't pay enough to cover US Airways' cost structure. AirTran's cash balance more than tripled and their debt dropped substantially in 2003, so they'll be in a good position if US goes kerflooie.

Jim


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

AirTran's cash balance more than tripled and their debt dropped substantially in 2003

Really??? WOW!  Wow!

SRQ --please, please, please, please, please, please!



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

Does anyone think this announcement is a veiled concession that AirTran has not had great success against Delta on the west coast? Considering the ferocity with which AirTran attacked LAX, LAS, and SFO last year, I would think they'd be eyeing SEA, PHX, and SAN for 2004. Just a theory.

However, a simpler explanation could be that AirTran is just waiting for their 737s before expanding further into the mid-con market.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Well, I think we can all agree that there are markets, that in a debatable sense, could benefit from FN in '04. However this 'internal' expansion, so to say, appears like a sound plan. By strengthing the current system through
added frequncies and dot connecting, FN may be strengthing the system for expansion demand starting in '05; this is when we'll see many 73NGs and new 717s come on line and after pilot traning (in the case of the 737) FN will have to have somewhere to fly them, so I think that focusing on enternal expansion is a sort of preperation for a much bigger operation this time next year.

While most of you guys so far have focused on the iron belt and New England for dot connecting, I'd like to take things down south.

additonal GPT-ATL frequncies would be a major boost for this market. FN flights to and from are packed, the need for 2x more dailies is needed, partiurlary morning and evening flts, to complment mid-day flts all ready operating. This would bring the connections into GPT up to the standard 4x most FN makets have to ATL, and provide greater frequency and serivce at a time of day higher-yeilding business pax fly.

Weekday (at least) 717 or CRJ flt GPT-BWI. Weather you know it or not, GPT produces a lot of gov't travelers up to the DC area, and BWI on FN would provide low cost, non stop, travel to these mostly business oriented pax.

GPT-MCO could support a flt, possibly just a weekly freq., but the market does have its travel demands for Mickey Mouse Country.

Also, in that 'pick the city' fourm on FN website, two markets I remember seeing could probaly support/need LCC servic. TYS and SHV, TYS is just a stone's throw from ATL, but it's only service to its biggest connecting hub is DL to ATL, which probaly means highway robbery prices.
SHV-ATL, in '03 SHV lost a lot of seats w/ the withdraw of mainline DL, the market is served strictly by regionals now and LCC service could benefit this market greatly. Wouldn't be ironic to see a big LCC parked at the gate DL M88s used to operate out of here?



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

FN? Don't you mean FL? FN is the code for Regional Airlines (Maroc).

I have to agree about adding flights to GPT. The lack of a morning flight and a later in the evening flight sends some pax over to Delta, who offers more frequencies through ASA. AirTran did once operate flights to GPT from HOU, DFW, TPA, MCO, and FLL; only FLL and TPA have a daily to GPT. The loads on the other routes did not warrant keeping the service. I am surprised that they don't offer BWI-GPT, or even a IAD-GPT. As for TYS as a future city, the loads were not all that great when they served there previously; the only time flights to TYS were full were during football season. I mean there were times we'd send a 732 up there with maybe a dozen pax and it would return with about the same load. Same would hold true with DC-9 flights as well. It could work better since they've got a better route network than before, and I have noticed that many of the DL mainline flights to TYS are using MD-88s, so the city could support a mix of 717s and CRJs from AirTran.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3397 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Is there any validity to the rumor that Airtran may possibily leave IAD? With the growing BWI presence and if they get the slots for 2 more flts to ATL from DCA will they need IAD.

User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

DCA-ROCguy:

Actually Joe Leonard did qualify his remark about no new cities with "depending on the market situation" and after reading your post I'll bet that qualification came because of the situation at USAir. Good call!



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

*sigh* I guess that counts us out here in OMA.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1599 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

AirTran has also quietly increased frequencies in many markets over that last couple years. The most successful city-pair, believe it or not, is BOS-BWI which now has 8 nonstops. ATL-DFW, FLL, LGA, MDW & TPA are up to 8 nonstops per day as well.

Some dot-connection I've heard rumored about lately include: DFW-GPT, PHL-RDU-FLL, MKE-LAX, MKE-LAS, and a return to to PIT-PHL. This is in addition to the previously discussed build-up of DFW (although this now appears will come more gradually).


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

You'd think that with US nearing Ch.7, the LCC (AirTran especially) would be piling on the pressure in the North East to help accelerate the process. Unless somebody starts offering decent alternative service to US's sparse RJ service to secondary cities in New England, NY and PA, the free-for-all that's going to happen when US does finally bite the big one is going to be massive and very bruising. I'm sure it would be far better to enter an existing US route and be there as the alternative incumbent should US go bung, rather than scrambling to implement new routes should the worst happen. And if US doesn't go bung, a little healthy competition never hurt anyone, right ?

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4493 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

AirTran has also quietly increased frequencies in many markets over that last couple years. The most successful city-pair, believe it or not, is BOS-BWI which now has 8 nonstops. ATL-DFW, FLL, LGA, MDW & TPA are up to 8 nonstops per day as well.

Someone in AirTran route planning probably got a big promotion out of that one. BWI-BOS had languished ever since Southwest built up BWI-PVD and BWI-MHT; by late 2001 even US wasn't flying mainline a/c on BWI-BOS anymore.

But guess what, folks--lots of people still want to go to Logan, right in downtown Boston, and the prize was there for the LCC that wanted to brave the Airport from Hell. BWI-BOS was a winner right out of the gate; that route has had more frequencies even than the successful BWI-ATL route during FL's entire period at BWI.

Meanwhile, Southwest keeps making money on big traffic to PVD and MHT. The winners? The travelers of Eastern New England. Good work, AirTran.

JGP and Alphascan--AirTran may well be quietly studying a lot of those intra-Northeast routes on which US now can only make money with RJ's and DeHavilland's. I agree, FL could probably get into a number of those routes and markets before US's demise, and establish itself.

I wonder if FL figures it'd be less costly to wait for an actual US Ch. 7, something that still is in a little doubt. By waiting for the actual Ch. 7 they wouldn't the incumbent to deal with at all. AirTran is also more nimble than Southwest, and could get SYR, RIC etc. stations up and running more quickly and with less expense because they're willing to enter with fewer than 10 dailies. JetBlue won't have its EMB-190's for another year, so they probably wouldn't enter many of these routes with 156-seat a/c.

Jim


25 Gr8slvrflt : By holding off on new cities, AirTran is in a much better position to pounce on new opportunites. Supposing FL got the Shuttle from US? Extend and exp
26 B757capt : Don't forget about the west coast. All those new planes and no new routes to add. I don't belive it. we shall see!
27 DCA-ROCguy : Don't forget about the west coast. All those new planes and no new routes to add. I don't belive it. we shall see! At what rate is AirTran receiving t
28 Decman : Well, a lot of people if PA would be very happy to see Air Tran return tp PIT-PHl, becuase US airways prices are highway robbery.
29 N323er : Those new routes to DAY are out of BWI they will start on Feb 11th one flight will be a CRJ (Air Wis) and the other will be a mainline 717. As for the
30 TriJetFan1 : Why don't they serve CLE?
31 DCA-ROCguy : Decman--AirTran did run PIT-PHL during 2001, I think it was, with four dailies. But the route is mostly business travelers. At that time, companies we
32 Srbmod : The first 737s will be used to replace the Ryan Int'l A320s. There may be an increase in frequencies on the west coast routes as additional 737s come
33 Graham697 : What about opening a western hub like LAX? They could move some free 717s to the west and some to the NE. graham at TPA America's Favorite Airport
34 DCAYOW : DCA-ROCguy: Spirit is trying to get more slots at DCA to commence DCA-DTW. Watch out Northwest !
35 Post contains images PVD757 : Airtran is not going into PHL more than they already are. PVD757 not at TPA. America's Second Favorite Airport
36 DCA-ROCguy : DCA-ROCguy: Spirit is trying to get more slots at DCA to commence DCA-DTW. Watch out Northwest ! Thanks be to God. Detroit is one of the largest remai
37 Usairways85 : PVD757 I dont know Airtran just added 6 flts a day into PHL for this winter season and they could very well keep most of them year round. I would look
38 Wedgetail737 : Srbmod... Air Tran will get their first two 737-700's in the first month, then 1 per month after that.
39 JetBluefan1 : Top pick for connecting the dots: BUF/ROC - BOS What else? I read an article in the D&C awhile back that what's his face (our airport director) is try
40 DCA-ROCguy : I read an article in the D&C awhile back that what's his face (our airport director) is trying to get JetBlue to start ROC-BOS runs when they get thei
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