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AA Fleet Update  
User currently offlineKKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10622 times:

I was in a meeting yesterday in DFW, and was advised of the following AA fleet updates:

A300 - Accelerated retirement (2008-2012, down from 2013).

767-200 - Those a/c currently in temporary storage will be permanently grounded and/or cannibalized.

TWA 757 - Will be returned (early) to lessors.

737 - Telephones will be removed and scrapped.



We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6613 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10439 times:

And what will replace the A300 and 767-200? No MD-80s going?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10430 times:

This is very long way to go with A300 aircraft and will be retires in 2008 or mid 2012. I am not sure eith way that would be leave with their fleet. What are you guys about orders with more new airplanes in near of the future. Thanks!

User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 611 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

I thought they were going to bring the 762ER's back.

AA787



ET In NYC
User currently offlineOrdpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10332 times:
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Very interesting.....I can understand to A300's and the 767-200's. But the TW 757's are a bit of a surprise....I guess the PW engines are too bad a mix with the RR engines....Any word on what they intend to replace all that capacity with?

User currently offlineKKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10275 times:

Ordpark,

Yes, the return of the TWA 757s is due to the engine difference. It isn't cost effective to have two different engine types.

No word yet on what will replace the A300, 757s and 767-200s leaving the fleet.



We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
User currently offlineOrdpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10208 times:
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HMMMM. UA sure could use some more PW powered 757's!!!

User currently onlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10007 times:

Well with the Airbii going back starting 2008, the 762's being grounded, and a reduction of the 757 fleet, maybe AA is interested in the 7e7?

After all, it will be able to fill all of those aircrafts roles..



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9962 times:

What will American Airlines replace the SFO-JFK, SFO-BOS, LAX-JFK, LAX-EWR, LAX-BOS, LAX-IAD 767-200 equipment with?


What is the long term plan for the MD-80 fleet with American Airlines?



LHR001


User currently offlineAMM744 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2003, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9789 times:

Long Term plan at AA seems to be smaller is better, perhaps the East/West Coast runs will have CRJ-200's, then in 2013 when the A300's have gone they can be replaced with ultra high density ATR-72's !

Way to go AA.



User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9685 times:

"SFO-JFK, SFO-BOS, LAX-JFK, LAX-EWR, LAX-BOS, LAX-IAD 767-"

A combo of 757-200s and 767-300s,




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

It said the 767-200's that are currently parked as being the ones effected, I take it the ones presently flying are staying around?


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineKKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9535 times:

Luv2fly, you are correct, just the 762s currently in storage are being scrapped (at this time).

AMM744, Eagle utilizes the CRJ700, not the -200, and the ATR's will soon be flying the transatlantic & transpacific routes, and therefore the Saab's will be used on the transcons instead.  Smile



We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9497 times:

In the past AA has not been ashamed to pick up compatible aircraft on the used market..Some Dc-10-10 came from the original National/PAA in a fleet swap and some DC-10-30s were picked up here in there also as I recall.

I would love for AA to be a launch customer for the 7e7. I am bit surprised about the Airbuses because the A-300s only came on from the very late 80's until about 92 as I recall. Perhaps there is some MX issue on the horizon?

For now though, those are cash machines for AA and the cargo capacity is outstanding to the Caribbean Basin destinations.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5947 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9390 times:

Also though, we have to remember that the TWA 757-231s (actually, they're 2Q8's) are not owned, but leased. The lease was transferred during the takeover, but the point is that the leases run out at some point. Perhaps this is just a statement that the leases will not be renewed? Or is it that they are being terminated early?

The A300s need to go. They're going to be the oddball in the fleet, after the Fokkers are gone.

What does this say about AA's long-term strategic plan? Shrinkage over the next decade?

Oh, someone said that he bet United would love to pick up some PW powered 757s. In response to that, I'd say United would love to pick up a ten- dollar bill these days. Worry about new 757s when you can fly the ones you already have. I'm still pulling for them.

R


User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

AA737-823, you're right, the a300s will be the oddball soon.
Though, i doubt AA has the cash right now or soon to be the launch cust. for the 7E7. Maybe they can go for the last 7e7 model?
But when the order the 7e7, i see another 777 order, possibly an upgraded 777-200ER or a 777-300ER



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9254 times:

AA's goal is to reduce the size of their fleet and the different configurations, A300s do offer nice revenue from cargo etc. However they are also a burden because they are not compatible with any of AA's other aircraft, read this article from yesterday's New York Times Business section:

"American's CEO lauds Southwest

Big airline's plans are modeled after rival's 'better paradigm'


11:48 PM CST on Thursday, February 5, 2004


By ERIC TORBENSON / The Dallas Morning News



NEW YORK – American Airlines Inc.'s chief executive, Gerard Arpey, praised rival Southwest Airlines Co. on Thursday, saying his company's new thinking emulates what Southwest has done for years.

"One of the reasons Southwest is so successful and has such high customer service ratings is that they promise a product that is very simple and deliver on that promise very consistently," Mr. Arpey said. "It's a better paradigm ... and that's where we need to move."

Mr. Arpey's comments to analysts at a Wall Street conference represent another significant change in the corporate mindset of the world's largest airline.

Southwest has been profitable for three decades by using one plane type and offering a no-frills point-to-point schedule.

American's system has been far more complex. Just a few years ago, American flew 14 types of planes with 35 configurations, Mr. Arpey said, as part of a strategy to put the right planes in the right markets to bring in the most revenue.

But complexity came at a high cost. As business travelers have grown more cost conscious, discount carriers such as Dallas-based Southwest have gained momentum. In response, American has been simplifying its operations since 2002 by cutting the number of types of aircraft it flies, streamlining its schedule and scrutinizing its processes to squeeze savings.

By September, American will have just 5 types of aircraft, Mr. Arpey said. The carrier would move faster to simplify its fleet if the task weren't so expensive, he said.

"The more complex your operation is, the more chances you have in disappointing your customers," Mr. Arpey said at the morning conference, sponsored by Goldman Sachs.

The Fort Worth-based carrier continues to rethink how it sells itself to customers, Mr. Arpey said, but wants to be sure it has services to offer that fliers will pay more for. American has no plans to drop its first class cabin, for example, because its best customers value the extra legroom and other services, he said.

American will use its frequent flier program to increase revenue, but Mr. Arpey said he thinks the program's mileage bonuses and incentives are a bit "too liberal." He said he hopes that a strengthening economy and airline industry will let the airline "tighten them up a bit."

The good news is that American's financial recovery continues to take shape. American hopes its costs per seat mile flown, a standard measure for airlines, will be 17 percent lower in the current quarter than in the first three months of 2003, Mr. Arpey said.

"We must keep pedaling as hard as we can," he said.

Some factors are making American's recovery more of an uphill ride. Health care costs for current and retired American employees run as much as $350 million annually. Competitors and newly created airlines such as JetBlue Airways Corp. have little or no expense for retirees, Mr. Arpey said.

Stubbornly high fuel prices will continue to eat into American's bottom line. The carrier has used financial markets to hedge some of its fuel needs for the current quarter, but it has significantly less fuel pre-purchased at lower prices for the rest of the year.

Still, analysts have generally cheered American's overall job of reducing expenses, which are now lower than at Houston-based Continental Airlines Inc.

With leaner costs, American can now flex its muscle against both its traditional foes and the surging low-cost carriers.

"If we face carriers such as JetBlue that come into our markets, we can defend them with all the tools available to us," Mr. Arpey said.

But analysts are concerned that when American and JetBlue compete on a particular route, JetBlue is winning customers in part because it has satellite television in each of its seats. JetBlue offers no first class service or meals.

American has studied adding such systems to its fleet of more than 700 planes, Mr. Arpey said. But for now, it's focused on adding power ports on its planes to let travelers use their computers for work or for watching movies.

"You really have to ask yourself how much we are going to spend on that kind of technology on the airplane when people are bringing it on themselves," he said.

Shares of American parent company AMR Corp. rose 23 cents to close at $15.63. "



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

This is all good news and IMHO - it seems like they are looking at the big picture for recovery, as opposed to lets put it to the business travelers for money to fix our problems.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAMM744 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2003, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9094 times:

"AMM744, Eagle utilizes the CRJ700, not the -200, and the ATR's will soon be flying the transatlantic & transpacific routes, and therefore the Saab's will be used on the transcons instead".

I wouldn't be a bit surprised...


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9041 times:

Delta could also use some more Pratt-powered 757s, as well as NWA. If only AA was willing to spend the money to retrofit the ex-TWA 757s with Rolls Royce engines. It's so sad they have decided to catalyze the retirement process of them, as AA is my favorite airline only because TWA lives on them. The ex-TWA 757s' departure from the fleet is truly a bummer indeed. It's also disappointing to hear the AA 762s and 762ERs that are grounded will not be reactivated. Even more depressing is the news that the A300s have less than four years to go before the retirement process begins.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8933 times:

The A300 has no fleet commonality with the rest of AA's fleet; that aircraft should have been retired long since. AA has a glut of 757s, which can take over the 762's operations without much trouble, along with the 763. TWA's old 757s have little commonality with the rest of AA's 757s. Probably cheaper just to return them to their lessors. Clearly, AA has realized that its fleet is too big and has too many variants of aircraft. It's trying to reduce its fleet and standardize.

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8876 times:

Hey

The American Aibus-300 is manilly used on flights to the Caribbean. That is really the only use of the planes. Becuase so many people want to go to the Caribbean they opperate a plane like the A300 that can carry a lot of people. Latley the caribeean routes have been opperated by the:

777
767
757
A300. Basiclly there whole fleet visits the Caribbean. The 737 pulled out of the Caribbean same with the super 80s. I find it interesting that AA is dropping the TWA 757s becuase yes the TWA 757 uses different engines, but there are only what six TWA 757s in the AA fleet? I think that AA is the largest 757 opperater. I think that id they want to keep that record they should just change the engines on the TWA engine. It would probally cost a lot of $$$$$ thoe. I think that AAs New flight should be:

Main Fleet
B777-200ER
B777-300ER
B757-200
B757-300(before it is two late)
B767-300
B767-400ER
B7E7
A330-200ER

AA Eagle

ATR-72
ATR-42
CRJ-700
ERJ-145
ERJ-135
ERJ-170.

I know that AA is trying to down size there fleet but i think these planes would fit nicley in there fleet renowel planes.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8864 times:

A little more clarification on the 762s...

AA grounded its 767-200 (non-ER) models. All 767-200ER aircraft are flying the transcons, and as we saw a few days ago, as subs transatlantic. I am not sure how many there were, I remember eight non-ER 762s, but that's just my guess. I may be wrong.

Good question about the MD-80s though. There are quite a few sitting in the desert (former TWA). I wouldn't be surprised if they were left there too because of the interior differences. It's a headache for catering and the flight attendants, because none of the equipment matches AA's. And besides, the MD-80s in the desert are among the oldest in TWA's fleet.

Perhaps AA is trying to get into a position of fulfilling their current order with Boeing. There are still outstanding orders for the 777 and 738. AA has flown the 777 from BOS to SDQ in the past, and perhaps with more 777s in the fleet, they could replace some of the high density routes to the Caribbean with those and the newly reconfigured 763s.

The TWA 757 leases are up in 2007, so we should still see them for a few more years. AA only has 16 left... there were over 30 in September, 2003. Sad thing is, from a flight attendant perspective, we love that 757 ten times more than the AA 757. We like having eight doors as opposed to six and four exit windows, we like the aft lavs at 3 L/R instead of 4 L/R (more room for F/As in aft galley) and the video system. The only flaw is the first class coat closet is a joke!

Here's a thought: now with the 757s back to LRTC, if AA takes out the lavs, they could add a few more rows, allowing capacity to become more aligned with the A300.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8825 times:

As of August of 2003, looks like 9 B767-200s (non-ER) on the roster. One in 9/30/119 config (ship 312) and then ships 301-308 in 9/30/121 config.

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 859 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

AA should get the A320/321 and why not A330X for its fleet update?
"whatever you´re size we got it"
Cheers

Michael//SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
25 STT757 : AA may at some point order 737-700s to begin replacing M80s, possibility but not for a few years.
26 Yyz717 : The TWA 757 leases are up in 2007, so we should still see them for a few more years. AA only has 16 left... there were over 30 in September, 2003. Act
27 Ordpark : AA737-823, UA comes out of BK in June - tremendous progress has been made and they will be a very lean operation. We're not in as bad a shape as a lot
28 Pe@rson : I didn't read all the above posts so don't know whether this was mentioned, but the A300 carries a nice amount of cargo - which is an important consid
29 Thrust : The 737-700s, while more fuel-efficient and longer-range than the MD-80, do not provide an adequate replacement because their passenger capacity is no
30 Cloud4000 : Actually, the 737-900 would be a great replacement for MD-80s and 757s, on certain routes. And the 7e7 would be a great replacement for 757s and A300s
31 KKMolokai : Qqflyboy, The TW 75s are being returned EARLY to their lessors.
32 Motech722 : Ahh, the airliners.net rumor board, I love it. KKMolokai, I was just curious if this information has any hard evidence to it or if it was just "discus
33 KKMolokai : Motech722, These facts are not rumors. The information was provided by senior management on a power point presentation just days ago in DFW.
34 Ckfred : The one thing that I notice is that the largest Eagle plane is the CRJ with 70 seats and the smallest AA plane, after the Fokker retirement, is the MD
35 Post contains images GEG2RAP : AA should get the A320/321 and why not A330X for its fleet update? "whatever you´re size we got it" Hmm maybe except for that pesky exclusive agreeme
36 TrnsWrld : If AA absorbed close to 30 TWA 757 aircraft and are only operating 16 of them now where is the other half now? Sucks to see them go I liked flying on
37 Post contains images SafetyDude : (before it is two late) Oh dear...people it is "too". There are two apples; I have to go to the apple; I have too many apples. Also, I think it is mor
38 Tan flyr : KKMolohai..no dis respect...However as a frequent flyer/and freight customer of AA..shippingto SJU..I really wonder how AA would replace the container
39 KKMolokai : Tan Flyr, No disrespect taken. I'm just reporting what was presented to me on a power point presentation by senior management in DFW. AA is well aware
40 ORDagent : Ok, Another concern I have is that in the Caribbean market the runways are shorter. I don't think the 777 has the same performance and needs a longer
41 Yyz717 : If AA absorbed close to 30 TWA 757 aircraft and are only operating 16 of them now where is the other half now? One is flying for Transmeridien. Shangh
42 ConcordeBoy : i see another 777 order, possibly an upgraded 777-200ER or a 777-300ER I rather doubt either. They still have nine 772ERs on order. Doubt any "upgrad
43 TWAL1011 : The TWA 757's were being returned to the lessor since day 1 of the integration. We knew in 2001 that the 757's would be returned as the leases expired
44 Gigneil : There is no exclusive agreement. The WTO threw it out. B757-300(before it is two late) It is now too late. No new orders. N
45 Sv11 : The A300 retirement timing sounds perfect for a 7E7 order. The 7E7 would have nice cargo capacity for the latin american routes. It would be good if A
46 Thrust : On the contrary, Yyz717s. AA is operating no 717s whatsoever. All the TWA 717s are flying for other airlines now. I doubt AA will add the 717 to its f
47 Milesrich : AA was not displeased with the operating characteristics of the 717 but the TWA lease rates were so high, that AA decided to dump them when they had t
48 Yyz717 : On the contrary, Yyz717s. AA is operating no 717s whatsoever. Yes I know. I was talking about the ex-TWA 757's. As for the 773ER, it will be a natural
49 Anxebla : KKMOLOKAI: Do you think A-300 is a good plane for AA's Caribbean routes??? What aircraft do you prefer for his replacements? Maybe an A-330?
50 KKMolokai : Anxebla, AA will NOT purchase Airbus in the future. Any why would they want A-330s anyway! I don't know what the replacement a/c will be, I seriously
51 MAH4546 : i see another 777 order, possibly an upgraded 777-200ER or a 777-300ER I rather doubt either. They still have nine 772ERs on order. Doubt any "upgrade
52 American 767 : If American adds new types to its fleet later this decade, it'll be the 7E7 for mainline routes and the ERJ-190 for Eagle. American is, after loosing
53 Post contains images LMP737 : If AA were to buy the A330 that would mean going against AB own position on fleet simplification.
54 KKMolokai : "American has already drastically reduced the number of fleet types, look how many were phased out during the last three years when American was strug
55 NightFlyer : Well, I think those A300's would look good in FedEx colors. NightFlyer
56 ConcordeBoy : AA wouldn't mind getting thier hands on some longer-range 777s to finally be able to do Miami-South Africa runs. The current 772s have the range, but
57 LMP737 : ConcordeBoy: If possibility exists for American to make money on a route that would require the 777-200LR or -300ER I'm sure they would let by gones b
58 Speedbirdheavy : I thought the 737s were brand new? Why would you scrap them?
59 KKMolokai : "I thought the 737s were brand new? Why would you scrap them?" 737 - TELEPHONES will be removed and scrapped.
60 LH423 : AA has flown the 777 from BOS to SDQ in the past Yes, but that's more for aircraft utilization than anything else. They do sell the flight out and I'm
61 MD-90 : Is there a difference in the number of seats between the AA and TWA configs?
62 ConcordeBoy : I heard the talk of AA "possibly" having some interest in the A340-600 Not the A346. At the Asian Aerospace 2000 aviation show... AA placed formal ten
63 Qqflyboy : MD-90... the AA 757s have 22/166 seats and the TWA 757s have 22/158 (both back to standard coach configuration.) The MD-80s are being standardized as
64 KKMolokai : I spoke with the VP of the Maintenance Base in TUL this morning, and he confirmed the fleet "update" plans previously mentioned. He said the A300 flee
65 RayChuang : I think right now I can envision the following happening to the AA fleet: 1. Airbus A300B4-600R--will continue to fly with AA until at least 2008, use
66 Tekelberry : 7. Boeing 767-300--they will likely replace most of the 767-200 planes by 2006-2008 time frame. They will eventually be replaced by the 7E7 from 2009
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