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OGG Airport Runway  
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Since OGG airport only has a 7000' runway, does that ever cause weight restrictions to be necessary on flights out of OGG? I know that CO recently started service from IAH to OGG with a 764 and that AA has or did have service from ORD to OGG with a 762. On long flights such as these with lots of fuel (and lots of pax, as is the case with the 764), do they have to take restrictions to make the entire flight?

When I was flying from EWR-LAX a month or so ago, I was speaking with the F/A who said that they were continuing to HNL and overnighting there. She said that the IAH-OGG flight has done exceptionally well and that CO is looking into attempting a 762 from EWR-OGG due to the huge number of pax that go from EWR through IAH to take the flight to OGG. Would this really be a feasible route? And is there any substance to this rumor? I know that AA can do OGG-ORD, and EWR isn't much further, but I'd like to know what the experts here at a.net think about this.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Continental, on the OGG-IAH, leg doesn't put the entire airplane up for sale, I believe they leave something like 12-20 seats open and pending on conditions in Maui (i.e. winds) as well as winds aloft for a certain day, they might put them up for sale at the last minute or offer them to nonrevs if nobody else fills them up. The 764 isn't as good on takeoff as the 763 and can't even be compared to the 762 which is exceptional as long as the engines aren't dramatically derated. They usually can't carry much cargo on this route if the seats are full. Delta uses a 764 on the OGG-LAX route, significantly shorter than OGG-IAH and even they take substantial weight restrictions. The one thing OGG has going for it, however, are predominantly strong headwinds for runway 02, usually between 15 and 25 knots. I've heard of there being days, when there were no winds, where paying passengers actually were bumped off, very rare of course. OGG-EWR would certainly be possible, but only if a 762 were used. There's no way Continental would ever put a 764 on that route. The 767-200 is incredible on takeoff largely due to it's thrust to weight ratio and it's large wing span. It could easily carry a full pax payload out of OGG for a 9 hour + flight. I for one would love to see EWR-OGG start up. Hope this answers your question.

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Wow. Thanks for that incredibly detailed explanation. I had a feeling that CO might occasionally have to weight restrict the flight. That just got you added to my respected users list.  Smile

User currently offlineDoninfc From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Speaking of the OGG runway, I landed there in Jan. 2003 on an AA 763 from STL (a route that is sadly gone, probably forever). The approach was normal, but a sudden wind gust wreaked havoc just after we touched down. The wings wobbled and I kept waiting for an engine strike. It then felt like we were being jerked from side to side, and then hydroplaning sideways. I'm a seasoned flyer, and I know when something isn't normal. The FA sitting across from me looked terrified. When we finally came to a stop, another FA announced "well, you know what they say, the best landings are the ones you walk away from". Sorry, a little off topic.


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2026 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

I've had many landings at OGG just like that one.

The wind gusts off the nearby West Maui Mountains can make for some pretty shaky last-minute go-arounds. I've seen several Hawaiian DC9s touch down, bounce once or twice, and rev up to go around.

Of course, they COULD extend the runway, but would horribly alter the local environment and destroy Maui beyond recognition. Never mind that they cleared out and graded the extension area a decade ago, and all they have to do is pave the darn thing...  Insane


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

DL's OGG-LAX route was only thanks in part because of the addition of the 764 to the fleet. Prior to that DL could only operate the LAX-OGG portion of the flight on a L15. The return portion was forced to go OGG-HNL-LAX. This was due to the L10 takeoff performance. Currently DL like CO does block very few seats (2-4 or something, as done on several routes) to account for certain weight restrictions. Although DL's 764's operate with a 36 F 249 Y capacity. DL also operated another daily flight HNL-OGG-HNL on a L10.
I do believe OGG's runway has been extended though since the L10 left service.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4479 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Of course, they COULD extend the runway, but would horribly alter the local environment and destroy Maui beyond recognition. Never mind that they cleared out and graded the extension area a decade ago, and all they have to do is pave the darn thing...

I know, it's very frustrating. There were huge protests over extending the runway.


One of the concerns was that it'd allow larger jets to land, which would bring more tourists, which would bring more hotels, which would bring more land development, and less land left untouched.

Maui does NOT want to be another Oahu. And that's what made the residents upset. Nevermind that 764s are already landing there, if about 20 pax short as indicated above. But Maui doesnt want to give up any more land to development than it has to. Right now its the perfect balance between man and nature on that island. Whereas Oahu has lost much of its land to development. I see their point, though it would be greatly beneficial to extend the runway a bit.


User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1644 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
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OGG also has a 375.000 pound maximum takeoff weight restriction, back when the airlines operated the DC-10/L-1011 aircraft, they would have been to heavy for the runway if they had to fly OGG to the west coast, so they had to hop over to HNL for more fuel. I did this a few times out of OGG.

With the 767-300 they can carry enough fuel to as far as ORD or STL and still meet the weight restriction with a full passenger load.

The 767-300 is a long range airplane that can carry fuel enough for 13+ hours of flight, so the fuel load for a seven hour eastbound flight is just over half of the total fuel that can be carried. This translates to less take off weight and less runway needed so they can operate easily and safely out of OGG's 7000 foot runway all year.

The runway has not been extended beyond 7000 feet and I doubt it will ever be extended under the present governor, the Maui County Government does not want fully loaded 747's landing there. And the current governor of Hawaii is the former mayor of Maui County, and she led the fight against extending the runway at OGG.

I also doubt the 767-400 can meet the weight restriction on any flight beyond LAX/SFO


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3655 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3016 times:
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Maui does NOT want to be another Oahu.

I have to laugh at this. Maui is already moving towards this direction. The traffic is just as bad and they are building more homes and plans to build even more due to a shortage of homes on the island. All this and they also have water problems which have led to restrictions on water usage and the takeover of the aquifer by the state.

BTW, UA already sends 777 to OGG. Flt 47 SFO-OGG turning into Flt. 34 OGG-SFO.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

NW recently started daily OGG-HNL service with a DC-10-30

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Last year I flew from HNL-OGG on a Hawaiian 717. The winds were really blowing on Maui that day making for a really bumpy landing. Hats off to the crew they did a fine job landing in that high wind.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

sorry, my bad, typo:

I meant NW started SEA-OGG with DC-10-30


User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3192 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Plans to expand OGG's main runway were dropped with the advent of the large twins. The plans were developed when it would have been necessary to use a 747 for long haul service. With the advent of aircraft like the 777 and it's powerful engines, OGG's present runway is considered sufficient.

David / MRY


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

I have flown our (Hawaiian) 767-300's into OGG many times from SEA. Taking off from runway 2 (downhill and into the wind) isn't a problem with a full load going to SEA. However once in a while the wind shifts and we would have to take off from runway 20 (uphill). Even with no derate on power, we had to wait for the wind to be over 10 knots to be legal to takeoff for Seattle. I would imagine in a situation like that the -400 would have to make a stop in HNL to get back to the west coast.

As far as the turbulence goes, OGG ranks right up there with the worst places I've ever flown into. And that includes a lot of out of the way places in Alaska in the worst winter weather anywhere.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 206 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

NWA operate DC10-30's SEA-OGG and will switch to 757-300's in June. DC10's are limited due to runway length - can only operate with all thrust reversers working / antiskid working, and with no visible moisture at the airport while on approach. If thrust reverser / antiskid problems on ground OGG, we can operate to HNL and then refuel for the mainland. We carry lots of fuel inbound so we can hold for a while before diverting to HNL - and yes, we have diverted to HNL a couple of times due rain. We have also had to operate SEA-HNL and then change aircraft to operate into OGG due thrust reverser write-ups on the aircraft allocated to SEA-OGG.....there are no back-up aircraft in SEA. With the 757-300, take-off performance is not the greatest and we will have a payload restriction for OGG-SEA. Definitely not a route to try to non-rev on!!!!

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Redtailmsp,

Interesting info to report there. Considering this route has only been operating now for about 2 months, its interesting to see the problems that have developed.

Do they currently have to weight-restrict the DC-10 out of OGG?



User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3655 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
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I thought the DC-10-30 wouldn't have problems operating out of OGG. HA used to have to stop in HNL when they used to DC-10-10 out of OGG and was able to cut the tech stop when they got the DC-10-30. I know they have sent those aircraft out full of pax without leaving any bags behind. HA have sent delayed HNL pax to OGG and fill the OGG-LAX flight. This was done on the ex-CO DC-10s which sat around 250 pax.

User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 206 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Weight restrictions out of OGG would only be a problem if using rwy 20, but we have been able to operate pretty much without any penalties. We have been carrying some freight out of OGG to SEA - pinneaples I am sure, as well as all the pax/bags. Again, we have a limit for operations on take-off with any precipitation at the airport, but this has only once really affected us, when they had the torrential rains in early January that lasted seemingly forever. Usually, rain showers in OGG are brief and the runway dries up nicely.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

I also doubt the 767-400 can meet the weight restriction on any flight beyond LAX/SFO

I think Texas might be beyond LAX/SFO.... anyone confirm?

__________________
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy


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