MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3974 times:
This has been talked about before. Now it is official. Non-stop service between San Francisco and Maui start 10 June 2004 and operates until 7 September 2004:
AA 233 SFO 1750-2020 OGG
AA 232 OGG 2150-0553 SFO
Will operate with Boeing 757 aircraft. From Maui, AA currently serves Chicago O'Hare, Dallas, Los Angeles, and San Jose non-stop.
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3810 times:
Yes ... A SFO based flight attendant (AA) told me about this last week. Also coming down the pike is a SEA-OGG (or it may be HNL), a SFO-LHR (slot being provided from BA), additional LIH and KOA flights, as well as a morning departure (8am) from HNL-LAX.
Southwest Airlines apparently had rights to fly to Hawaii, and gave them to AA, thus the added flights and frequencies to/from the islands.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
Dadoftyler From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 319 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3778 times:
Um....no, Southwest doesn't "have rights" to fly to Hawaii. American didn't need anything from another airline to fly this (and the chances of Southwest "giving" another carrier anything for free is between slim and none). Airlines don't actually need "right" any longer to fly between points in the US, although for Hawaii they do need overwater equipped aircraft, which Southwest doesn't have.
It is, however, an interesting choice for an aircraft that would otherwise just be a RON. I doubt the a.m. HNL-LAX, though, as that pretty much "uses" a whole aircraft at very low yield. United and Hawaiian already have a.m. HNL-LAX service, and they're never full. Nonrevs use these as their only way back to the mainland on peak days--trust me, I'm one of them.
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2673 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3686 times:
What aircraft are they going to put on this route? Probably the 763ER or the 757, since SFO-OGG is around as long as a non-stop transcontinental journey. The A300 actually might make some sense. The 772ER is too big for that route.
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3626 times:
Thrust, I was told the flights would be using the 757 on both the SFO-OGG/HNL and HNL-LAX morning departure.
Dadoftyler, I'm just reported what was told to me by a flight attendant. They received a company eMail outlining the new flights and added frequencies coming in the next few months. I'm assuming for staffing purposes.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
As739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3573 times:
THRUST....The A300 make no sense at all. AA has made it clear they try and keep the same type of A/C at airports. Other then Hubs, you don't see much veriety. Where would you start a A300 from to get it to SFO? All this flight does is make use of a airplane that would spend the night in SFO.Thats a leisure plane the A300 and all the other routes headed east are a mix with business.
MOLOKAI..... what do you mean WN had the rights to Hawaii? Someone gave you bad info. No Hawaii airport is restricted, its just like if AA started SFO-FLL, they can just start it, no questions asked. Its not a International flight (Though some airlines classify it that way).
Good news for SFO however, maybe it will go year round cause the 757 seems best for that flight.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
As739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3475 times:
BCAinfoSys....it would be a 757 I'm sure! Personally I'd say I will believe it when I see it, but I didn't see the SFO-OGG coming so maybe.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Wmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3447 times:
Possibly going after TZ since we've had tremendous success on this route? We use the 757-200 and 757-300 on all the Hawaii routes.
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3299 times:
Possibly going after TZ since we've had tremendous success on this route?
Well, since Pleasant Holidays buys most of TZ's seats... but no, AA's new service isn't in response to TZ. AA has quickly grown to be one of the largest carriers to Hawaii over the past decade...
Jjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
It's not crazy to suggest that this might be, in part, due to TZ's success with the route in particular and to Hawaii in general. I am surprised to see AA adding service to anywhere in Hawaii at the moment, though. Hawaii flights are usually notorious for being low-yield affairs. Why AA wants lower RASM is beyond me; this would tend to support the hypothesis that this service is for competitive and not financial reasons.
Yes, PHH buys blocks of seats on most Hawaii routes, but, hey, a seat filled is a seat filled. Marginal revenue is a great thing. Also keep in mind that TZ's CASM is industry leading for a carrier of its composition. ATA's service to Hawaii is nothing to scoff at, either.
Aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3230 times:
"Also coming down the pike is a SEA-OGG (or it may be HNL) additional LIH and KOA flights, as well as a morning departure (8am) from HNL-LAX.
Speculative, but perhaps very plausible. After all, AA has a bevy of 75s in leisure market configurations. While they get maximum usage during the winter for Florida, they'll have to find other markets for the summertime.
Though AA's prescence at SEA is middling, the new codeshare with AS could be a nice opportunity to capture some of that traffic AS is now interlining to HA and NW.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3194 times:
Aaway,
Not speculative at all. Also, AA does not have a "bevy of 75s" in leisure market configurations ... All of AA's 75's are in one standard (22F/166Y) configuration, with exception to the TWA 75's still in use.
Look for these new additions/frequencies later in the year.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3149 times:
I am surprised to see AA adding service to anywhere in Hawaii at the moment, though. Hawaii flights are usually notorious for being low-yield affairs.
All five major network carriers serving Hawaii have increased capacity in recent years (as has TZ, HA and AQ). I believe flights to Hawaii make money -- especially when one considers vacation packages, etc.
SEA-Hawaii would be an interesting choice for AA. Would they be able to successfuly compete against HA, NW and TZ? SEA-Hawaii will arguably be overserved... NW has a much larger marketshare in SEA vs. AA...
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3130 times:
Not speculative at all... Look for these new additions/frequencies later in the year.
It is speculative. Again, I think the SEA-Hawaii market is (and will continue to be when HA and NW add frequency) over served already. I don’t believe AA/AS codeshare to Hawaii, so they’d have to amend that part of their agreement. Also, I’ve never seen AS provide feed for HA’s SEA flights, although they do so for other HA flights… this leads me to believe that NW/AS have some type of agreement. Nonetheless, AA’s SEA market share is insignificant compared to UA/NW, so I’m not sure what’d entice flyers to utilize their services other than price.
Also, AA does not have a "bevy of 75s" in leisure market configurations
“Lesiure market configuration” refers to non-MRTC configuration…
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
IndustrialPate,
If AA flight attendants are being notified of such new routes through company eMail, how do you consider this speculative? Also, MRTC is being removed from ALL of AA's 75s.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
Aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3061 times:
Thanks IP. Didn't want to use the LRTC moniker.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
As739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3013 times:
Any AS or NW people correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Alaska codesharing with AA from SEA to HNL/OGG be a breach in contrat with Northwest? I don't see there being an agreement on that and without feed into Seattle with Alaska, I doubt AA can make SEA work.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
FLIBOYZ From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 201 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2952 times:
One of the reasons for the SEA-OGG service on AA could be that AA and AS has formed a lucrative code-share agreement. This code-share agreement could be just enough for AA to start service from SEA to ANY Hawaii destination, regardless of it's competition.
I hope we start more service from NEW places soon. AA needs to beef up service to and from Hawaii. SEA-OGG/HNL would be nice, PDX-OGG/HNL.
I think that AS and HA has some kind of code-sharing agreement too. Correct me if I am wrong. But if they do, it could be that AS wants a more stable airline to deal business with. This because of HAs BR? I don't know.
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2926 times:
If AA flight attendants are being notified of such new routes through company eMail, how do you consider this speculative?
If AA's FAs are being notified of SEA-HNL and/or SEA-OGG via company e-mail, then the route will be announced within days. Cabin crew are never notified of new routes months in advance -- and FA have been known to very very gossipy...
Again, I could not picture AA operating SEA-HNL/OGG status quo. They'd be going up against HA (one to two daily B763 to HNL, daily B763 to OGG), NW (should be operating two B753 to HNL, one B753 to OGG this summer) and TZ (B752 to HNL). It's a crowded market, AA has little market share in SEA, and not much to sell their services on other than price.
...but wouldn't Alaska codesharing with AA from SEA to HNL/OGG be a breach in contrat with Northwest?
I suspect it would, but I'm not 100% positive. I've never seen an example of AS providing regional feed onto HA's flights from SEA to Hawaii (but I have seen they do so from EWR) but they do so on all others.
I can't imagine AA offering any more long-hauls, other than seasonal/weekend/daily service from JFK or BOS. I doubt AA would be successful in more West Coast markets (e.g. PDX)... maybe AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS?
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4741 posts, RR: 43 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2883 times:
This new route just smells of over capacity, and seems daft to start a low yield route out a major UAL hub when there already plenty of available seats.
Aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2840 times:
..."seems daft to start a low yield route out a major UAL hub when there already plenty of available seats."
UA relinquished a bit of it's leadership position at SEA, particularly SEA - Hawaii, with the discontinuation of n/s SEA - Hawaii flights. Now served via SFO on UA.
As739x,
Good point! The AA-AS codeshare does cover just West Coast flying at this point in time. But this bears another question: Why would the AS-NW agreement be limited to exclusivity from SEA to Hawaii?
[Edited 2004-02-10 22:08:28]
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2744 times:
"If AA's FAs are being notified of SEA-HNL and/or SEA-OGG via company e-mail, then the route will be announced within days. Cabin crew are never notified of new routes months in advance -- and FA have been known to very very gossipy... "
Yeah, that makes lots of sense, doesn't it.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
SFOJFK From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2605 times:
SFO-HNL has been an AA route for years. It was on the DC-10, the 763, and now the 757. They just added SJC-HNL in 2000 and added OGG a year later. Just wondering if they would keep the SJC-OGG with this added flight.
25 MAH4546: They just added SJC-HNL in 2000 and added OGG a year later. Not sure when SJC-HNL was added, but SJC-OGG started in 2000. Just wondering if they would
26 KKMolokai: 767s are returning on the SFO-HNL flights, if they haven't already.
27 Legacyins: "Yes ... A SFO based flight attendant (AA) told me about this last week. Also coming down the pike is a SEA-OGG (or it may be HNL), a SFO-LHR (slot be
28 Cvervais: RE: the SFO-LHR, would they derve the route themselves from SFO or would they try to transfer the route to SJC for a flight from there? I'd love to se
29 Aaway: "the SFO-LHR, would they derve the route themselves from SFO or would they try to transfer the route to SJC for a flight from there? The "Bermuda II"
30 IndustrialPate: 767s are returning on the SFO-HNL flights, if they haven't already. The B763 are here temporarily – the route reverts back to a B757 shortly... - -
31 Aaway: "And FWIW, the idea of BA giving up LHR slots to AA to operate SFO-LHR is laughable..." I don't think AA and BA are THAT chummy! And I certainly wasn'
32 KKMolokai: IndustrialPate, How fortunate are we, that you KNOW so much about AA. What exactly is your position/title at the airline? Instead of attending my meet
33 Qqflyboy: My .02, SEA-HNL doesn't seem likely as AA does not operate a crew base there. The SEA base closed sometime after 9/11 when AA canceled its SEA-NRT ser
34 KKMolokai: Qqflyboy, What's the exact star record for "new markets?" I'd like to take a look at it. Thanks in advance!
35 Aaway: "What's the exact star record for "new markets?" I'd like to take a look at it." Market Changes Market Changes Intl
37 IndustrialPate: I don't think AA and BA are THAT chummy! And I certainly wasn't suggesting that this would take place. Merely answering a question posted by another v
38 LMP737: Cool, one more way for me to get to the islands and spend lots of money!
39 KKMolokai: "And after your next consulting meating, please tell use about AA's new LIT-AA), Japan">NRT and BNA-SYD services. " Wow ... Great! Haven't heard about
41 ATA767: TZ may retaliate adding more Hawaii on their own with out Pleasant Hawaiian. They have already done that out of SFO. If they start flying the 737-800
42 Jjbiv: It's only a matter of time before ATA brings the B738s to Hawaii, IMHO... joe
Sponsor Message: 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Printer friendly format 
