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Delta To Eliminate Existing  
User currently offlineJblake1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 293 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Wow!!!!!!!

ATLANTA, Feb. 10 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL - News) today announced plans to limit the size of its Boeing 777-200 fleet. Delta said it intends to sell two Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery to Delta in 2005. The company also intends either to acquire other Boeing aircraft in lieu of three Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2006 or to sell these three Boeing 777-200 aircraft.

Delta currently plans to continue to operate the eight Boeing 777-200 aircraft in its existing fleet and said it is pleased with the operational performance of these aircraft.

Delta and Boeing have agreed to defer until the second half of 2005 delivery of two Boeing 777-200 aircraft originally scheduled for delivery to Delta in the first half of 2005. Delta intends to sell these two Boeing 777- 200 aircraft and has entered into an agreement with an undisclosed party to assist in the sale. Delta expects that such a sale, if accomplished, would reduce its capital spending requirements by approximately $300 million through 2005.

"Delta must continue to create a path to rebuild its balance sheet and maintain effective cash flow management," said M. Michele Burns, Delta's executive vice president and chief financial officer. "Reducing major capital spending, such as purchasing aircraft, is an essential way to contribute to this goal."

Delta also intends either to acquire other Boeing aircraft in lieu of three Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery to Delta in 2006 or to sell these three Boeing 777-200 aircraft. The company has not yet identified which aircraft type it would acquire in lieu of the Boeing 777-200s if that option is chosen.

Delta Air Lines is proud to celebrate its 75th anniversary in 2004. As the world's second largest airline in terms of passengers carried and the leading U.S. carrier across the Atlantic, Delta offers 7,664 flights each day to 497 destinations in 84 countries on Delta, Song, Delta Shuttle, Delta Connection and Delta's worldwide partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. For more information, please visit delta.com.



58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

Reads like a great epilogue to the story of Delta's continual reluctance to build its 777 fleet. Just after Delta acquired ship 860, it threatened to sell the entire fleet if it couldn't resolve a dispute with its pilots. And then there was the fascinating rumor last year that Delta would lease at least one 772 to SAA.

I'd guess the substitute would be more 763s, provided Delta still would be looking for international growth on a smaller scale than that provided by 772s.


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8081 times:

DL seems to just love the 767s, and I guess the 777 is too big for them.

They can actually probably make money 'reselling' new 777s (like they did with the 738s). Too bad, if they only have between 4-8 777s in service I doubt I will ever get to fly it (unless I go ATL-NRT).

Too bad, I was looking forward to their small collection of 777s growing. I hope they don't call the 777 the 'flagship', it is too sparse and will be more so!



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineScottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6831 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

In my opinion, this is all about putting pressure on the pilots to give the company the wage cuts it desperately needs. With far fewer 777's in the fleet (as well as the sale of 737-800 deliveries last year), Delta is reducing the opportunities for advancement (and retirement with larger pensions) for its pilots. The pilots seem bound and determined to put Delta in Chapter 11, and it looks like they're going to succeed in a year or so.

[Edited 2004-02-10 23:38:18]

User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8000 times:


Here comes the 717 order  Big grin


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

Jblake1...how about adding a bit more to the topic line so we'll know what it's about and not have to open it if we're not interested. Click the "Edit Post" button and add, maybe, "777 Orders" at the end of the existing topic line phrase.

Thanks.


User currently offlineEzra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

Here comes the A330/340 order, and an arbitration over pay scales for these aircraft!

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7805 times:

The 777s aren't too big... just too expensive to operate. ARE YOU LISTENING ALPA?????


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

I hope they don't call the 777 the 'flagship', it is too sparse and will be more so!

Sorta how Concorde was called "Flagship" in the midst of tens of 744/772s?  Insane


User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7711 times:

So how about them MD11s for some long haul European routes. LOL Big grin Big grin Big grin




User currently offlineAv8rDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 463 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7621 times:

Sounds like the 767 is becoming the realistic flagship of the Delta fleet. If Delta cannot fill a 777 profitably, then by all means, be smart and replace it. They need to fill every seat they can, and if it means downgrading, then so be it. I've flown DL ATL-FRA a couple times on relatively boring 767s (no PTVs!) and there was not a single vacant seat. Talk about a cattle car.

777 flight crews are also the highest-paid of the Delta fleet, if I'm not mistaken. Save some more cash there.

Also- how about DL reconfiguring a few 764s for transatlantic routes that may be so popular as to warrant larger equipment than a 763, but not a quite 777?

My two coppers...



Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13767 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7537 times:
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Here comes the A330/340 order, and an arbitration over pay scales for these aircraft!

Um...WHAT?  Confused

Here comes more 763s or 764s, possibly...but no Airbii.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7540 times:

A330/A340? Can you say exclusive contract with Boeing? This might actually be an opening for the 767 line to stay open. If the 777 is too big, what about the 764? Call me crazy, but this would cover most of the routes that they could do with the 777.

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

The airline's shrinking......we've lost L1011's, 727's, MD-11's, and now dashed any hope for more 777's and 738's. Not to mention pilots on furlough, and pleanty of pilots retiring as the months go by....

Another ill-advised management decision if you ask me...some people in DL HQ need to take a hike.....they're not going to get their high concessions, and pusing the the Ch 11. button isn't going to help either...it's been 2 1/2 years since the industry took that major dive....we shoulda been out of the woods awhile ago.

Ahhh...management.
DeltaGuy


User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2039 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7387 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I agree with DeltaGuy, if Delta was/is going to make a move such as Chapter 11, they should have done it a LONG time ago. It's too late to do it now, especially (provided the plan they come up with works) UA coming out of Chapter 11, that will only hurt them even more.

Apparently 777 flight crews at Delta want to be flying RJ's with another airline.


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7277 times:

"In my opinion, this is all about putting pressure on the pilots to give the company the wage cuts it desperately needs. "

Exactly right. Expect that when/if a pay cut deal is announced, Delta will change gears and hang onto these aircraft.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

Maybe the rumor of the NW service out of ATL to NRT isn't so outlandish given this event. If they can run a 764 on every other route, they could theoretically get rid of the handful they have and simplify the fleet.

User currently offlineJblake1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

Sorry about the topic.... I'm still leaning... but it seems that Delta is heading towards a majority makeup of MD80/757/767 sorta of like NW DC9/757/747 basically 3 main body types for medium/long range pax capabilities?

User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Don't forget the A's that NW fly as well. You do have the concept though. Fleet simplification is the hot thing to try to accomplish now. In the 80's, it was who can fly the most diverse fleet.  Laugh out loud

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

If CO and AA and UA manage to use their 777s profitably (CO and AA consider it the flagships of their fleet with new BF seats and Flagship Suites), what is causing DL to have such issues with them? CO only has in the neighorbood of 25 777s - they manage.

User currently offlineN707PA From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

If CO and AA and UA manage to use their 777s profitably (CO and AA consider it the flagships of their fleet with new BF seats and Flagship Suites), what is causing DL to have such issues with them?

You can start looking in column four........

http://www.apapdp.org/pay.comparison.php


User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1338 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6649 times:

It is so hard to read this trash. Can't you guys just research a bit before you post?

"Can you say exclusive contract with Boeing?" There hasn't been an exclusive contract with BA for a very long time. EU issues and such.

"Apparently 777 flight crews at Delta want to be flying RJ's with another airline". The 777 Captains will all be retired shortly with very comfortable retirements. Some of the F/O's are close to retriement and the rest of the FO's have Captain senority. None have any fear of "flying RJ's for another company". And in a BK scenario, DAL won't stop flying and the 777 guy's will only see the inside of an RJ when non-reving.

"With far fewer 777's in the fleet (as well as the sale of 737-800 deliveries last year), Delta is reducing the opportunities for advancement (and retirement with larger pensions) for its pilots." There is no reduction of 777's in the DAL fleet. DAL IS NOT selling currently flying 777's, therefore there will be no loss of 777 pilots positions. The number will remain STATIC. The opportunity for advancement remains STATIC.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Hello, I said Boeing not British Airways. I'm sorry that you don't remember that in the mid 90s. Delta signed an exclusivity agreement after Boeing bought MD. This was to guarantee them production slots for the aircraft they were to buy. CO and AA also signed such agreements. US tried to get a similar deal, but Boeing could not make such an offer. Hence, US Airways decided to buy Airbus because they could guarantee this. Unfortunately, due to the disagreements with the pilots on pay and work rules, they had to defer the first bunch of A320s. NW has these now as well as BMI. I can recall this from memory because I know exactly where I read it and discussed it.

User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Does DL fill the 777's that they fly across the atlantic? I read that they were filling the 767 across the pond earlier. And what about the ATL-NRT route? Are they filling that one too? What kind of load factors is DL flying with?

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineNlink From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

The 777-200 imo doesnt make a lot of sense for Delta because it is not required to make there Atlantic trips, only required to make 1 route, ATLNRT in range. It seems that it would be more cost efective to get NW fly ATLNRT with the 747-400. This would allow them to sell 8 more aircraft, get rid of an small fleet and allow there widebodies to be 767-400/300/200, so more commonality, except between 767-400 and other 767, but the maintance parts and stuf are similar

25 STT757 : "CO only has in the neighorbood of 25 777s - they manage." Correction, they have 18.
26 Thrust : The 777s are expensive to operate? That's a new one. The 777 is not too big for Delta's routes...no other aircraft they have is capable of operating A
27 Gigneil : Another ill-advised management decision if you ask me...some people in DL HQ need to take a hike..... Delta's pilots need to take a hike. They stonewa
28 Post contains images Cory6188 : STT757, thanks for clarifying that. I was too lazy to look it up on their website.
29 Post contains images ScarletHarlot : "Delta To Eliminate Existing" Can someone please tell Delta that I want to continue to exist? Sorry, had to say it.
30 Thrust : The Delta pilots are trying to block modernization of the fleet. The 777 is plenty flexible enough to fit into Delta's structure. Delta's decisions he
31 Gnomon : PVD757 -- MD88Captain was referring to Boeing, as well. BA is Boeing's NYSE symbol. The sole-supplier contracts signed by Delta and a few other U.S. c
32 Gigneil : Also, the fill their roles in the transatlantic market fine. Apparently not. N
33 DrJetMech : Continental has 18 777
34 N79969 : PVD757, "BA" is Boeing's stock symbol. I think DeltaSFO is exactly correct. I recall reading that before Delta 777 was introduced, ALPA was claiming t
35 Behramjee : If these 2 are of the ER version then it shouldnt be too hard to find a buyer as DL would sell them for a good deal so I wouldnt be surprised if EMIRA
36 Tu154m : Guys.............DL's problem is not loads, it's costs!!! The majority of routes flown by the 777s, even domestically, are full. The memo at work toda
37 Gigneil : Behramjee- DL's 777s are all powered by Rolls Royce Trent 892s. AA is the only US carrier that matches up that engine type, and a lot of your top list
38 CPDC10-30 : these 2 ER would come in handy but then again DLs B 777s are probably not Rolls Royce Engines!!!) Actually, yes they are.
39 The777Man : Too bad to hear this; was looking forward to Delta expanding their 777 fleet. I agree with DeltaSFO that this may be a negotiating tactic to lower pay
40 Panamair : Tu154m is exactly right...Delta does not have problems filling their 777s (at over 82% average load factor on the ATL-NRT-ATL run in Jan '04, that mea
41 EddieDude : I don't know for sure whether the ATL-NRT route is profitable for DL or not, but my guess is that it must be. Therefore, I don't know if DL would get
42 Scottb : MD88Captain says: "There is no reduction of 777's in the DAL fleet. DAL IS NOT selling currently flying 777's, therefore there will be no loss of 777
43 CLEfan : About the engine choice, since the aircraft are not built yet, does it matter that they were to be delivered with Rolls engines? Can another airline b
44 Gigneil : A contract for a plane comes with obligations to the engine. If the engine selection were changed, DL would still owe Rolls Royce. This is the presump
45 Flyboeingjets : The notion that DL cannot fill the 777 is absolute nonsense. The loads to the major European cities from ATL alone are overpacking the 763s and causin
46 Behramjee : Well then if that is the case...then send the B 764s trans-atlantic during peak season too...the B 764s are not needed that much in the summer for Haw
47 Njintern : I flew a DL 777 ATLLGWATL last week. Business Elite is a great product. First time I've ever had an ice cream sundae on an airplane. Yummy!
48 Greg : On the other end of the scale..why did you say they were getting rid of their 738's? Far as I know, all airlines...(save SAA)..has been very happy wit
49 N102daman : Do I hear reconfiguration of the 767-400 aircraft. Or maybe more orders of the 767-400. Would kind of make sense to me anyhow. Can't see why Delta wou
50 Worldtraveler : While there are clear pilot issues involved, DAL is serious about shoring up its balance sheet. Taking delivery of anything new when the company conti
51 STT757 : DL mentioned they may convert the 777 orders to another Boeing aircraft, my guess would be if they go that route they would choose the 767-400. The pa
52 Gigneil : Its also entirely possible although not necessarily plausible that Delta will convert the orders to the 7E7, however, that wouldn't have the same nego
53 Brons2 : I bet they can pick up some more 764's CHEEP.
54 Post contains images A340600 : Yeah all we get now here at LGW are the 763s. Used to get them plus MD-11s and 777s. Oh well makes a change considering AA and CO both fly the 777s in
55 WorldTraveler : DL could well be a launch customer for the 7E7. Part of their aversion to buying a bunch of 777's is because the 7E7 will make the 777 obsolete in les
56 Brons2 : World Traveler, even the Stretch 7E7 is 20% smaller than the 772.
57 ConcordeBoy : Can't see why Delta would reduce the size of its current fleet of 777s ...neither can they, which is why they have no intention of doing so __________
58 Post contains images NWA330Tony : I hope they dont think Delta Connection can pull off ATL-NRT in one of thier RJ's?!?! sorry i couldnt hold it!
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