Redtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 204 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3026 times:
It was due to a disruptive passenger. Flt was about an hour north of DTW when this occured. Pax was a Chinese national who was becoming a real problem, so decision made to divert to DTW, have the authorities deal with him and continue flight to NRT. Dumped 130k of fuel, broke almost a full load of pax onward connections from NRT in the process. Very, very expensive for the airline, but little other choice. Continuing in these circumstances is not really an option, especially with another 9-10 hours or so ahead.
TriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2978 times:
In the end, does the disruptive pax get billed for all the trouble? Obviously, at first, the airline gets stuck w/the bill, but what happens next?
[Edited 2004-02-17 16:33:54]
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
AA777-200 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 322 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
LOL! You know the funny part about this is???! He came down to TOL later that day and tried to buy a ticket on us for a flight to ORD! We had to deny him and the cops had to come haul his butt off the airport property! It was pretty interesting.
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12022 posts, RR: 43 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
AA777-200, how did you know this was the guy that brought down a NW plane? Is there a "disruptive pax database" ?
AA777-200 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 322 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2449 times:
We got a call from the police saying it was him and that we were to not allow him on the plane. I guess he was very disruptive and also we had talked to NW up in DTW about him. Usually when stuff like this happens the airlines/airports look out for each other. And considering DTW/TOL is only about 60 miles apart we got alot of people driving back and fourth between airports. When I work tonight i'll ask the agent that actually dealt with him and see what she has to say.
Brad
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2039 times:
Flight Attendants? I was in the jumpseat. It was a great CRM effort that entire situation. All crewmembers worked together very well. The FA's were immediately wanting to divert, not thinking of the amount of fuel that would be required to dump (we had to dump over 140,000 pounds). The captain (my dad) had the final say in the situation. We determined that we couldnt tell how the passenger would act if he was strapped in a seat all the way to ANC, and MSP was snowy, so DTW was the final decision. The other NF captain and FO, myself and one of the FA's put him into a seat (with minimal force) as we were on approach.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2013 times:
By the way..he was obviously mentally disturbed...all of what he said was nothing but jibberish. Some type of schizophrenia maybe?
AviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1845 times:
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36 Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1594 times:
If NW really wanted to take the time to sue this guy they could. The problem with that is it costs a lot of money to have a lawyer in court for a couple of days then all you can do is hope that he pays and try to garnish his wages if you can find him.....
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1591 times:
XFSUgimpLB41X
How were you able to ride in the jump seat? From what I know that is not allowed anymore in the USA Please give me some info on that
NWAA330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 201 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1522 times:
UAL747DEN,
In his post XFSUgimpLB41X says that the captain was his father. "The captain (my dad) had the final say in the situation." Which I think explains his jump seat ride.
Tjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2296 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1299 times:
WOW! 140K fuel = apx. 20,500 gallons @ $2.00 plus per gallon = apx. $41,000+ in lost fuel alone...... Not to mention costs involved re-booking pax on other flights due to missed cxns.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 1155 times:
I had the jumpseat because I fly for 9E, not because my papa bear was the captain.
We figured that it costed the airline at least a couple million dollars with hotels, rebooks, landing fees, and all the other stuff that goes along with delaying 370 something people.
Kind of ironic- it was my dad's retirement trip and his first time ever having to divert after 32 years flying in the airlines. Congrats to him for a great career!
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 1004 times:
The reason you have to fuel dump is because of the huge difference between maximum takeoff weight and maximum landing weight. The 747-400 has a maximum takeoff weight of 870,000 pounds...and a maximum landing weight of 630,000 pounds. We weighed about 817 that day on takeoff...and had flown for a little while, so 140,000 pounds of fuel was the calculated amount need to dump to get us close enough to maximum landing weight. Typical landing fuel is around 30-40,000 pounds.
Tjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2296 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 981 times:
"Say, can someone tell me WHY the fuel had to be dumped?
New to the specifics of certain things....
thanks!"
-----------------------------
Simply put to shed weight. Planes with a combination of heavy fuel loads, cargo loads, and pax loads can't land at the weights they take-off with without risk of serious structural damage to the aircraft.
[Edited 2004-02-18 21:21:09]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
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