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Largest Airline And/or Aircraft Failure  
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5112 times:
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What do you think was the largest airline and/or aircraft failure.


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5065 times:
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Airline- ValuJet- after the crash in the everglades, they went down suddenly
Aircraft- Tough to say, I would consider the 764 a disappointment not a failure.
-TriJetFan1



Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Well, when you say failure, do you mean as in a crash? Or as in a business model/no sales?

If you mean failure, I would agree with you on ValuJet. As for an airplane, I'm not really sure. I don't know much about airliner safety statistics.

If you are referring to economic failure, I would say that US at the moment would be rather deserving of the title. DL isn't exactly winning any awards for employee relations either. As for airplane, I would consider the 717 a dud. It was not designed for a certain customer, like the 764 for DL and CO. Boeing knew that the 764 was not going to be a huge seller - but I think that they expected more from the 717 than a few orders from Midwest and some planes for AirTran.


User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4949 times:
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Well for failure of aircraft, its anything that you think made an aircraft fail.
-I also agree that the 717 didn't do too well.



Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineJcded From Switzerland, joined Jan 2004, 213 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

well valujet become airtran, not sure thats a failure


You breathe to do good and have fun.
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4745 times:
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Didn't the Russians make the TU-204 to compete with western 757 style jets?


[Edited 2004-02-14 00:32:37]


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

AIRCRAFT...the DC 5...only two built in KLM markings
AIRLINE..... .Eastern...largest in routes and fleet when shut down
with Braniff one close behind in size
ROUTES only...Swissair



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 913 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Aircraft = Dassault Mercure

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Photo © Jacques Lienard
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Photo © Steve Brimley



Airline Failure = Eastern, Pan American



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

That Mercure looks like the ugly cross-breeding of a 737 and an A319! lol.

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

Airline: Pan Am
Aircraft (from modern days): B767-400 (Boeing) and maybe A318 (Airbus)


[Edited 2004-02-14 01:52:28]

User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 972 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

BCAInfoSys wrote:
>>>
That Mercure looks like the ugly cross-breeding of a 737 and an A319! lol.
<<<

So... A + B = M

Should solve the A vs. B battle once and for all.  Smile


I must agree with the Mercure being a failure though. Development and construction of a 737-sized aircraft is a very large undertaking to only produce 12 units. As far as I know they were only operated by Air Inter.

Read about the Mercure


LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

It probably wasn't the biggest, but wasn't United Airlines Shuttle a big flop?


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User currently offlineLauda777 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

That AA A300 that broke up and crashed on takeoff in NY in 2001, Its pretty scary that they dont know what caused it, the only kind of accident that scares me (plane or car) is when they cant work out what caused it or why a certain part malfunctioned  Insane


We remind passengers all flights are non smoking, if you are caught smoking you will be asked to sit outside on the wing
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4420 times:

Manufacturer.

Avro Canada....They got screwed over so many times by the government that it isn't funny. Because of that the Candian industry is a fraction of what it should be.

Airline.

Eastern Air Lines has got to be the first one, because this was the first time that Bankers and Airline Unions went ten rounds. And everybody ended up losing.

Aircraft......Had to think on this one, since there have been a few examples. Dasault Mercure, Tu-144, Avro Jetliner, Lockheed Electra, Convair 990, Trident Starship, Saab 2000, ATP, Concorde (I know, you want to flame me, but look at all the canceled orders).

But I am afraid that I am going to have to put the largest aircraft failure on a pioneer aircraft that most consider a success.......The Dehavilland Comet.(I know flame on)

But you look at it, this aircraft was so revolutionary in performace and economy, it should have immediately made everything else obsolete. It's only competitor at time of roll out was the Avro Canada Jetliner, which would be canceled by the government to make room in the assembly halls for fighter production.

But because so many comprimises had been made in it's construction the aircraft ended up introducing the world to the term "metal fatiuge". The delay to determine the causes of those crashes and redesigning the aircraft to fix the problem gave time for two US companies to design aircraft that where faster, held more people and where more economic....The DC-8 and more importantly the 707.

By the time the fixed Comet 4's came around the 707 was allready flying and it didn't have the stigma that the crashes had bought on the Comet.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4299 times:
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I wouldn't consider the A-318 to be a flop yet, b/c it has not been in service long enough to 'flop.' But i think it will, b/c American carriers already have short range airliners such as the ERJ, any Canadair, and the 738 and 738. They do not need another short range jetliner......And is Frontier the only USA airline to operate the A-318?
-TriJetFan1



Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

AIRLINE: Sad to say it but...Eastern........

AIRCRAFT: MD-11 (Why hasn't it been mentioned?) (As a passenger carrier, cargo seems OK)

From the design stage to production and flight stages, Boeing and Airbus were nipping at MD's heels with the 777 and 340. In terms of total costs of cancelled orders, maintenance problems, crashes, it probably recieved the biggest hit.

In 2nd place would be the L1011

[Edited 2004-02-14 19:32:28]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineTYSGoVols From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 634 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

I would say that the TU-144 was a BIG failure. I love Concorde and all but it would have been nice to have seen some competition. Also along those lines anything the Russians built was pretty bad. Not to many still flying outside of the old republics and other USSR supported states such as China and Cuba.

In Christ
Garen B.



Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4211 times:

Airline - Canada 3000 was a pretty big failure, losing $1.5m a day by the time it went bust.

Aircraft - My browser keeps crashing and when I came back, Bmacleod beat me to the punch with MD-11  Big thumbs up a disappointment to McDonnell Douglas. But don't forget, the 717 and the MD-11 were both derivatives of successful aircraft (DC-9 and DC-10 respectively) so they can't be considered failures like the TU-144 or Dassault Mercure can.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

That AA A300 that broke up and crashed on takeoff in NY in 2001, Its pretty scary that they dont know what caused it, the only kind of accident that scares me (plane or car) is when they cant work out what caused it or why a certain part malfunctioned

I believe it was from the wake or jetwash of a JAL 747 which took of just before the AA300. The NTSB will issue a final report this spring.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1804 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

Airlines: PanAm, TWA, Eastern , Braniff, Piedmont, Swissair, Sabena,

Aircraft: All British built a/c other than the Vickers Viscount and the HS 748, CONVAIR 880/990, Mercure, Concorde, Douglas DC5, Douglas DC2, Lockheed L1011, YS-11, Boeing 247D, Boeing 307 stratoliner, all Russian a/c other than
the TU154 and IL76.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

DIJKKIJK
I wouldn't have said the BAe146 / Avro RJ line was a failure. They sold pretty well in the market they were designed for, before the ERJ / CRJ families were established. In terms of sales, they might not match the modern RJ families, but in terms of performance and number still in operation, they are certainly not a failure.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1804 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

and the biggest failure amongst airplane companies....


Fokker, without a doubt!

[Edited 2004-02-14 19:59:57]


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
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Fokker? didn't AA operate over fifty F-100's at one time......Dassault Mercure is first. Fokker sold more aircraft than Dassault Mercure.
-TriJetFan1



Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1804 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

FLYtoEGCC: I would agree that the BAE 146 /Avro RJ line was not a failure.

TriJetFan: I was talking about aircraft manufacturing companies when I mentioned Fokker.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Legend went down in what, five months?

AAndrew


25 Freshlove1 : Airline has to be Eastern, with Pan Am a close second......Aircraft I would say was the MD-11.
26 TriJetFan1 : DIJKKIJK- How do you think Fokker was the worst failure, in terms of sales, quality, safety record, etc?
27 Solnabo : Airline failure for me is Sabena, sorry to say! They got a new all-airbus fleet, and in a couple of years they went bankrupt.........sad, very sad! Ai
28 Isitsafenow : DIJKKIJK...Hello from USA...Piedmont did not fail. They were purchased by US Air and merged with their operation. They were solvent when the purchase
29 FLYtoEGCC : If we're talking VARIANTS that didn't sell well... e.g. 767-400, MD-11... then surely the A340-200 has to be considered as well, there weren't that ma
30 DIJKKIJK : "How do you think Fokker was the worst failure, in terms of sales, quality, safety record, etc" When a company which has produced one of the most succ
31 TriJetFan1 : "When a company which has produced one of the most successful aircraft ever,(F27), and which had an excellent line of jets under production(F100, F70)
32 Blackbird615 : U.S. airline failures: 1) Pan Am 2) Eastern 3) TWA 4) Braniff. Waiting in the wings with some potential US Airways. A secondary industry failure inclu
33 Freshlove1 : The 767-400 was not a failure, it was only built for DL and CO and they knew that it was not going to be a big seller, and from what I can see it look
34 Canoecarrier : Got to have Tower Air in there somewhere. And wasn't the Comet a commercial failure? BOAC bought a few, but after the crash it's sales went down hill
35 GalvanAir777 : Tower Air was the worst airline to fail, good bye forever! How about Midway 1? They fell pretty hard, no on second thought they fell on there face. Ho
36 Ryan h : I would say Ansett for airlines and the Dornier Do 728 for the aircraft.
37 Lfutia : I also would def. say Ansett
38 TriJetFan1 : What happened to Ansett?
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