PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2263 times:
After toiling around on WN's website, I noticed that there is a schedule change on July 6th. The thing is, if you jot down all (14) the arrivals and departures, they no longer match up correctly. That is, they have 4 flights that sit on the ground for 1: 60 minutes, 2: 165 minutes, 3: 100 minutes, and 4: 10 minutes. These times were all previously the WN normal 25 or 30 minutes in the June schedule, which leads me to believe that they will fill these odd time slots with new, not yet announced service. I have a good airline flight scheduling background and know WN well, this has to the case here. I have never seen WN do this before and know that they will not let these aircraft sit around for those lengths of time.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2224 times:
Hey PVD, I'm sure we'll see more than 5 PHL-PVD nonstops. I expect those to go out full from day one, $29 fare or not. It'll be interesting to see if US dumps capacity in the market, perhaps adding more A321 service. In any case, it will be good news for the people in the PVD area.
I would like to think that PHL-MSY would be a possibility....US only has three flights in the market.
Ordpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 543 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2217 times:
I'm sure they will build PHL as quickly as new aircraft deliveries allow...especially if US starts to retreat, It will be like smelling blood in the water.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2215 times:
First PVD-PHL flight of the day will be flight #1776. Very fitting if you ask me.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2202 times:
1776, just noticed, yes very fitting...I'm more than happy with the 5 PVD's, and won't complain if we don't get more right away, I have a feeling that whatever the new flights are, will be to a new destination for WN from PHL.
Swacle From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 351 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
Well, supposedly, PHL will be more like 80 a day by summer 05, so don't be suprised to see more PHL in July. Rumor has it that PHL-CLE will come online in Sep/Oct of 04, so we'll see!
Haveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2116 times:
Several of the majors NW, CO, AA, US have had flight 1776 to Philadelphia. WN is not the first to do this.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2062 times:
I hope the PVD flights do very well, because it could convince WN to add MHT in the future. Still, if you believe that WN's gain is US's loss, then I will miss the variety of A319/A320/A321 aircraft we see now between MHT-PHL. In the same way that MetroJet gave up the ship after WN started MHT-BWI service, I hope the parent company has more staying power and doesn't similarly 'give up' the routes that WN is entering.
Haveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2053 times:
Chris -- the last routes US gives up are in PHL. The are going to consildate their energy and do the best they can to fight off WN.
Usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3100 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2036 times:
Haveric: lets hope that. US has two ways it can fight this battle. The best way is to consolidate as much energy on PHL as possible, and the worst way is to consolidate energy on PIT and CLT where they know they can still charge high fares.
I hope they don't go for the second way or else US is doomed.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1960 times:
I think they could coincide together, at least for a while. US has critical mass at PHL and WN needs time to build, perhaps enough time for US to right it's ship. The concessions will help tremendously, as will dumping PIT as a hub and getting the 170's on those short haul routes and growing the network with the freed up mainline craft. De-peak PHL and CLT, get into some mid/west markets with lower airport costs, and they could make it work. I like US a lot, but they need some good timely decisions and a bit of good luck to pull it off this time...
N670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
The concessions will help tremendously, as will dumping PIT as a hub
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1894 times:
I didn't say it was imminent, just my opinion...thanks for the link though!
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1892 times:
I don't know how you can undo the damage between PIT and USAirways. So much was made of the dismantling of the PIT hub, and so much acrimony on both sides during it all. Having flown from MHT to the west coast several times via PIT, I found it a wonderful terminal to grab a meal and just relax between flights...not the claustrophobic place at PHL. It's a nicely-designed terminal at PIT, and I don't really understand the carrier's desire to ditch PIT in favor of PHL. Yes, the north-south traffic probably flows better through PHL than through PIT, but is that the ONLY reason why they favored PHL over PIT?
In the end, didn't USAirways decide to only take back a handful of gates at PIT? It seemed to be a move designed to placate the city officials at PIT, who would be angry as hornets to see their 'new' terminal abandoned by the only significant tenant there.
So, with PIT hanging around as a weak sister, I suppose USAirways will have to focus on PHL...and fight the good fight despite the orange-and-red interloper.
So...the question is this: if USAirways battles WN, they will likely have to lower fares to entice traffic onto their planes. Doing that without ALSO massively overhauling their cost structure will be their downfall. That said, will the cost structure be lowered (i.e. will the unions cave) or will USAirways die after putting up a small fight? And if any of you believe that they can survive with NO cost restructuring, please enlighten us with your wisdom. I believe the unions--in the same way a ship's captain goes down with the ship--will not give back, and the carrier will cease to exist.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1867 times:
Chris, as you know PIT is a nice hub to the traveling public, but COSTS US a pretty penny (3X the cost to transfer a pax there vs. CLT). As you clearly stated the costs at US are the problem, hence the desire to ditch PIT or have the airport restructure it's bonds to lower US's exposure to them. I too choose PIT westbound on US, but with US, there isn't much "westbound," which is yet another problem. The PIT hub serves no marginal benefit to US as they can move the vast majority of their pax over PHL and CLT with the exception of the old PA & NY mill towns with a runway. Nothing against PIT, but the writing is on the wall and US doesn't have the time or money to wait around and hope it works out there. If they go with the pilot concessions, grab the supposed 60 mainlines and go west, then PIT will have a role, but until then it is yet another drain on US' dwindling cash.
Flyinggizmo From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1802 times:
PVD757,
Word I've heard is that no matter what PIT is a dead duck. No O&D traffic, extreme hostility from the local press, outrageous fees....who needs that? If PIT was so great, WN would have come here ages ago. But they didn't, there is an obvious reason for it, and it's not because of US. It's because there is no money in it. So far, the talks I hear are going well, but we still are on the edge. The plan I have heard is extremely radical and will cause every workgroup to take a bite of the sandwich, if you get my drift. Dropping PIT, folding those PIT flights into PHL and the Northeast hubs, rolling PHL and maximizing aircraft/crew utility are a few of the things that will happen. I hope that it comes to pass, but I will not hold my breath untill the final vote has been cast.
N670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1797 times:
No O&D traffic
...even though PIT produces more O&D traffic than the crown jewel CLT.
Flyinggizmo From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1771 times:
N670UW,
are you sure? Show me a stat and I will believe you. CLT is a city that is exploding in population..."Charlanta". PIT is dying fast, young people leaving in droves, and only the elderly left behind. And we just love the Post Gazette and their "love" of US...LOL.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31122 posts, RR: 74 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1753 times:
N670UW,
are you sure? Show me a stat and I will believe you. CLT is a city that is exploding in population..."Charlanta". PIT is dying fast, young people leaving in droves, and only the elderly left behind. And we just love the Post Gazette and their "love" of US...LOL.
Pittsburgh is quite a larger O&D market than Charlotte. While Charlotte is growing and Pittsburgh isn't really a booming city these days, Pittsburgh is still significantly larger. In fact, Charlotte is not even the largest O&D market in North Carolina, Raleigh-Durham is.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1730 times:
Thanks F.G., seems as though my ideas for US aren't that far off... I work for an airport, so my best interests are the success of ALL airlines, so I do hope they can pull it off!
Freshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1498 times:
This just in (atleast that's what we were told!!)...US now has a $39.10 one way fare from PHL-PVD in June, It may be eariler but thats the month I used, they also have a $88.00 o/w fare to MCO from PHL in June, also this may be avail. at an eariler date. These fares have taxes already included. I'm not sure on MSY, or LAS fares yet , I'm still searching.
DeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1698 posts, RR: 38 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1443 times:
Well it's for damn sure that US wont be able to keep up with WN to PVD at any rate. US will also have to fight for LAS and Florida destinations. Going to be interesting to see how this is all going to play out.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
SHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 18 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1428 times:
Freshlove1-MCO-PHL is a cash cow for US Airways, it is currently their second-most traveled route, only behind the BOS-DCA shuttle, and ahead of both BOS-LGA and DCA-LGA...the MCO-PHL O&D flights (departs MCO around 9, arrives PHL at about midnight) are one of the few O&D-based flights US Airways mainline still has in their schedule...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
25 Freshlove1: I actually believe that they are going to put either the 170 or the 700 on the PHL PVD routes later on, it will not be an all mainline a/c schedule li
26 Thrust: Does WN plan to add more flights to STL?
27 RL757PVD: here's something interesting.... Mid may shows PVD-PHL with a record high seven daily US flights. An interesting thing to consider..... a 300 mile fli
28 PVD757: Hey Rick, how's things at ERAU? US must have just loaded those flights the past couple days, they wern't there Sunday a.m. This is great news, I heard
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