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Kai Tak Checkerboard Approach  
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10242 times:

Back when Kai Tak was open I was always amazed by the skill of flight crews particularly when turning at the checkerboard and lining up seemingly at the last moment for finals. Some turns at the checkerboard, I remember two aircraft that I personally saw( one was a Varig DC-10-30, the other a Lufthansa 747-230B), finished their turn at a very low level. I can only wonder what the pedestrians below must've thought when seeing or hearing these planes make their approach. I don't know what the MDA was for Kai Tak but those two planes must've come close to it. Anyone else ever witness an unusually low turn and approach at ol' Kai Tak?

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

VARIG DC-10!!, They only started service to Hong Kong with the 744's. Their DC-10's have not been to Hong Kong.

I could start to tell you some of the things I've seen but there is not enough room to type it all  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

This however is a good example:

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Photo © Daryl Chapman





User currently offlineCRJDispatchKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 99 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10055 times:

Here are two simply amazing (but probably normal) landings at the ill-fated Kai Tak. Thank God for rudders!

http://www.flightdispatch.net/media/747HKG.mpg

http://www.flightdispatch.net/media/AZHKG.mpg


-All I ever wanted to do was sit on checkerboard hill with a beer in my hand and a smile on my face.  Sad



Thanks...C-Ya...Bye
User currently offlineHeinz From Germany, joined Feb 2000, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9978 times:

I have seen Varig's MD11s on numerous occasions at both Kai Tak and CLK between 1995 and 1998. Didn't know they operated 744s into HKG.

User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9933 times:

Here you are Heinz - Varig 744s at HKG:


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Photo © Martin Oertle
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Photo © Andrew Hunt



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Photo © Andrew Hunt
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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



User currently offlineHeinz From Germany, joined Feb 2000, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9882 times:

TR, thanks for the 744 info ! Though I first got to Kai Tak in 1986, I have never seen any RG 744s there.

-------------------------------------------
In my experience, the 'best' airlines for 'out of the ordinary' approaches were the following (among others): Altialia, UPS, Fedex, NCA, United.


User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Heinz, Varig only operated the 744 for a very short period (1991-1994 if I remember correct). My very first 744 experience actually took place on PP-VPI in 1992 from Copenhagen to London Heathrow. So that aircraft - now with Air New Zealand and ZK-SUH - is something special to me. Funny that I also flew with it 10 years later from AKL to LAX. It´s a small world!

User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9738 times:

Dc863,

I don't know what the MDA was for Kai Tak but those two planes must've come close to it.

According to my IALs, MDA for the IGS approach into Kai Tak was 680ft, after this you disregard IGS indications, and follow a visual right turn to the right (46° offset).. If approaching using the VOR app, MDA increased to 1050ft..

Perhaps the VOR app was a little bit more difficult, as the final app turn was tighter, offset angle was 91°.

Rds

RS




"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineRb211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9570 times:

I had to check my own pants after watching the MD-11!! I'm surprised he/she didn't blow some tyres.


Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9414 times:

I'm sure it was a Varig DC-10-30, of course my memory is probably playing tricks on me.

User currently offlineN757KW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

Yikes, I work for KE and that clip does not exactly make me feel good. Is it the angle, because it looks like on both the MD-11 and the B747 that they were awfully close to having a main gear in the grass.

N757KW



"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
User currently offlineKlyk1980 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9208 times:

I am very sure Varig used to operate MD-11 for HKG route instead of B744.

During my days in Hong Kong, I did many final approachs over Kowloon and those low approach and checkerboard turn for landings were simply amazing, especially at night like a home-coming parade!!

Although Kia Tak was very packed, the airport was efficient. Taking bus between the aircraft and the terminal maybe troublesome, but provide an absolute great opportunity to getting close with those bigbirds, unlike in most airports, enter the aircraft through jetbridge.


User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8972 times:

the most exciting in the world ever. Once I was fortunate enough to sit in the cockpit with Dragonair A330 landing in Hong Kong. One of the few natural highs in life.


747SP
User currently offlineYulguy From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8846 times:

Landing at Kai Tak was always one of my favourite parts about going to HKG. It was really one of those things that gave the city its unique character. Sitting on the right side of the China Airlines flights from Taipei just before touching down...totally cool. The new airport's impressive, but it definitely is not the same. In the neighbourhood just by the airport, the jumbos seemed to be just barely missing the rooftops.


"Celui qui diffère de moi, loin de me léser, m'enrichit." - Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineScottishLaddie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 2386 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Can't imagine what the passengers were thinking on KE and AZ, I wonder how many overhead bins fell open on that landing!  Laugh out loud
Any more video clips they're great!  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineCX777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 154 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8702 times:

This was my first hand experience with RG -400 @ HKG.


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Photo © Rajesh Changela



HKG was unique in its ways (traffic, apporach, location). Cannot imagine there will ever be another field like that for spotters.

RC


User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8640 times:

I was lucky enough to get two jumpseat landings on 13, a PR A333 and a QF 763 just weeks before Kai Tak closed!

User currently offlineEspion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8574 times:

HKG was unique in its ways (traffic, apporach, location). Cannot imagine there will ever be another field like that for spotters.

the only thing we have now is SXM.Its a tropical paridise with everything anyone would ever want-but kai tak was amazing and would never be replaced.

btw this photo is scary.If youre standing ontop of a building almost looking DOWN at the windows while the 747 is still lining up with the runway-well im speechless.


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Snakes on a Plane!
User currently offlineV1vRfly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8342 times:

You can view the Jeppesen approach at this site:
http://www.pilot-tom.com/IGS13/
This approach began over the CH VOR, or the CC NDB (same location). The trick to flying this approach was to offset slightly to the left on the localizer course of 088 (1 to 1 1/2 dot) which would allow a longer final to sort out strong crosswinds, which were prevalent. Unfortunately, poor visibility played a factor as well, especially during early morning arrivals with the sun rising in the direction of flight. Offsets in this manner did not help in low visibility conditions.
The approach states that after the Missed Approach Point (MAP), 2.2 on the localizer or the MM, the pilot is to fly a 'visual right turn to rwy.' This meant that the either the checkerboard, the arcing lead-in lights, or the runway should be in sight to descend further while making the 48 degree turn to the runway. Many times the Captain would have to trust the FO's eyesight until halfway through the turn when the Captain could see the runway.
The glideslope provided descent guidance, but with a warning that continuing on the flight path after the Middle Marker (MM) would 'not provide terrain clearance.' The distance from the MAP to the displaced runway threshold was 1.6 miles. A normal glidepath at this distance would put the aircraft at 480 feet. If the pilot stayed at 680 feet until the MAP, then the aircraft would be 200 feet high at this point. Therefore, the pilot had to be 'visual' at some point prior to the MAP to continue descent to make a 'normal' landing (true of most non-precision approaches). The displaced threshold caused quite a few aircraft to go low on final, nearly dragging the gear into the tower and terminal buildings, until they realized the 1148 foot displacement. There have been many abnormal landings there due to all these factors.

The LDA Rwy 26 Approach in Honolulu is very similar, but crosswinds and low ceilings make this sporty, not the sun or the visibility.


User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8252 times:

The LDA Rwy 26 Approach in Honolulu is very similar, but crosswinds and low ceilings make this sporty, not the sun or the visibility.

In addition, the JFK Canarsie VOR/Parkway Visual Rwy 13 L/R, the LGA L.I.E. Visual to Rwy 31, and the BWI Interstate Visual Rwy 33L. While these are probably easier approaches in comparison to the HKG IGS Rwy 13, these also have some elements of the latter.

What are the other published approaches for other airports that are a derivative of the HKG IGS Rwy 13?


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4887 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8213 times:
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Hey, could the AZ DC10 pilot have been the same guy who was flying the CI MD11 which flipped at Chek lap Kok????

User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8099 times:

Just to answer the last question:

The pilot of the AE/CI MD-11 was Italian, so its possible!!


User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7907 times:

I understand the Italian pilot fled back to Italy immediately after the flip-over.
I hope he is no longer flying.



747SP
User currently offlineSpeedbirdHeavy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

What was the actual purpose of the checkerboard? Was it there to warn pilots to stay away from the hills, or was it there for pilots to aim for in order to pick up the IGS?

Also, what are the plans for the Kai Tak land?

I hope there will be some landmark that there was an airport there at one point in time.



China Airlines...Come fry with us!
User currently offlineKurt From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

I too am wondering what the checkerboard was for. Is this a common navigational feature or was Kai Tak unique in this?

25 Nudelhirsch : As it was mentioned above...is there a chart of the canarsie approach anywhere available on the web? i once did a search, found anything, just no char
26 Post contains links Pilawt : Potomac posted a link a couple of months ago. See http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1295185 Scroll down to Reply #7. The
27 Lax : >> "I am very sure Varig used to operate MD-11 for HKG route instead of B744."
28 Hawaii12 : those videos were awesome. does anyone know where i can get more videos of heavy's landing at kai tak? cheers
29 Nudelhirsch : thanks Pilawt...I really was searching for that chart, great link!
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