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MSP Closing 30R/12L  
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
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The runway lights are out on the 30R/12L runway at MSP. All traffic going on 30L/12R only. Expect delays and cancellations for the remainder of the night.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Well I just drove by and the lights to 30R/12L were gleaming very brightly as usual. Someone must have fixed them.

Jeremy


User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5521 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Well that was a quick fix!! I wonder why they went out in the first place....

User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2148 times:
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Continental, they've actually been out for a few hours, but it was when dusk came that it became an issue. But yes, they are back on now. Still a mess though with cancelled flights, especially Crybaby Airlines (9E). They are the first airline to cancel here at MSP, no matter the reason.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offline9ETRNG From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 31 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

Hey KaiGywer,

What the hell are you talking about????



User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
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9ETRNG, I'm talking about runway lights  Smile


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offline9ETRNG From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 31 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

I meant the 9E comment,
I am a pilot for Pinnacle, and the only thing we EVER actually cancel for is crew planning (short staffed), and occasionaly weather. Don't know what you ramper guys are hearing.....or being told.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
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9ETRNG, it just seems that once there is either two snowflakes falling or something else, 9E cancels. Once we see snow, we just wait to hear which 9E flight will be canceled first. So there will be CRJs sitting around, while our Avros and Saabs fly away. I have nothing against 9E pilots or their planes, it just seems that their mgmt is being like a big mother goose. Same with the need for two wingwalkers to PARK a CRJ, compared to none for Avros and Saabs. Makes it a hassle when you have to take someone away from a flight just to wingwalk you to your parking spot instead of keep working.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offline9ETRNG From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 31 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Your right about the 2 wingwalkers, but I guess our mgmt want to keep our investors happy... which = no bent airplanes. With regards to weather, I have not heard of ANY flights being cancelled due to snow. Like I said above, crew planning is the reason that accounts for over 80% of our cancellations...

I'm guessing they tell you guys other stories, so they don't look bad to passengers for having a staffing model which needs a little (a ton) of work.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2024 times:
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9ETRNG, I guess that would make sense. The weather just makes a great excuse not to go. Also, this saves them from paying hotels for the stranded passengers. Nice to know the truth from someone on the inside. I put you on my Respected Users list, just for being a 9E pilot based at MSP  Smile


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4029 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

Kai - we do have a policy with wingwalkers... If the containment lines are obscured or things are in the containment lines we need them.

The only way NW pays for hotels for the passengers is if the flight was delayed due to maintenance or something within NWAs control. That goes for 9E and Xj flights too.

I know that XJ and possibly 9E have a deal with NW that in IROP (Irregular ops) due to weather or whatever, we will voluntarily cancel saab flights and some avro flight to alleviate strain on the operation. It seems rediculous... but it happens often.


AZJ


User currently offlineRampboy77 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 64 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Kai,

I laughed out loud with Crybaby airlines ... it is soooo true. One night during a January storm we had 2 departures. The first one was a CRJ to PLN and the second a Saab to APN. The CRJ went up to PLN and circled once and returned to DTW. It was snowing in PLN in January SHOCK!. The Saab circled APN for close to 15-20 minutes and then diverted to PLN just as the CRJ was returning. That seems to be the rule ... circle once then return. It is not the best rule when you are flying through the upper-midwest in the winter.... oh well....


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1864 times:
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Rampboy77, hey, at least they left DTW  Big grin


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1850 times:
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Kai,

I'd never WANT to park or push a CRJ without 2 wingwalkers. The wings are too low and the aircraft is lower to the ground, making it harder to see obstructions, especially under the aircraft. I've seen instances where there were obstructions which would have been damaging to the aircraft but were spotted by having 2 wingwalkers. Also, we have too many pieces of GSE that are just about the height of a CRJ wing and could strike it. Saab and CRJ wings are significantly higher off the ground and will easily clear almost all of our pieces of GSE, lessening the need for such precautions under most circumstances.

I think that you forget that were are working with machines that cost millions of dollars and do not like to be bumped and scratched. I feel that anyone who complains about the 2 wingwalker rule should not be handling these machines if they are going to act and think in such a careless manner. Also, I don't see you on the CRJ and Saab ramps all that much Kai, so does this problem REALLY cause YOU all that much hassle?

The fact that there are not enough people on the ramp to park a plane is a ramp scheduling/staffing issue, not a flight/inflight scheduling/crew issue. Don't blame 9E for wanting to take simple and easy precautions to ensure the safe and careful handling of their expensive machinery.



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4029 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

It's funny how the situation is so "normal" without wingwalkers at XJ... but it ISN'T!! You ask for wing walkers and they get all pissed off. A few weeks ago in MSP when it was snowing so hard the ramp was completely covered and the containment lines and the taxi lines were obscured. We were parking at C25, next to that grouping of bag carts and I called on the radio for wingwalkers. This while the marshaller was trying to get us to move. When he got the call for wingwalkers, he threw his wands down and stormed off. IT'S YOUR JOB!!! Why is it so hard to just do your job? This situation is far more common in DTW than in MSP I might add... MSP is a dream to fly into and DTW is such a nightmare.

Kai - tons of reasons go into the amount of time one has to hold and make a decision to try and get into the airport again via another approach, or return to the origin airport. We don't have air to air refueling, so when we reach the magic fuel number that we don't want to go below, we go back or go to the alternate. So, that CRJ might hae had less fuel on board than the saab. It's hard to sit back and reason for yourselves the decision making that goes on in the flightdeck when you don't have the whole story.

These are the reasons I wish it was possible for rampies, gate agents, FAs, mgmt and anyone else who may not fully understand our job to ride along on a 14 hour day in the nasty weather. Not for sympathy, but to see the reasoning behind some of the things we have to do. And on the flip side, if we as pilots could shadow you guys or the agents for a day, we would have a better understanding of your jobs. And in the end, we'd have a better operation.


AZJ


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1710 times:
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Azjubilee, I can see why you would want wing walkers at C25, the gopher area is too close to the gate in my opinion. However, with 9E doing a straight in parking at the even B, there is nothing you can hit, still, they sit there until they get their two wingwalkers.

It would be sweeeet to get to spend a day with a pilot, but thanks to the FAA, this isn't possible, correct? And, about you guys spending a day with us, it seems a lot of XJ pilots are ex-rampers, and therefore know very good what we go through. As far as the marshaller, we see some of these characters out here...unfortunately.

And about the fuel, I can see why they would turn around if they were low on fuel, but it seems 9E's minimums are lower than XJ's? Since the SAAB landed at the same airport just moments later. Then again, I don't know the whole story, it might have cleared up by the time the SAAB got there. All I know is that I'm getting used to late nights lately, with YQR returning on Saturday and CMX yesterday. Didn't get out of here until 1 AM. And then back at 5:30 AM for another great day at MSP  Smile Shows how much I like my job.



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineMSPXJGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 150 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

YQR returning on Saturday, are you a sup or something Kai? I thought the sups sent all the workers home. Well atleast upstairs they did. I stayed til about 10:15 or so and then was told I could go because they weren't expecting that thing back til 11 and I had my other job that i had to be at 6am. Also I think they sent the counter coord home. Not sure.

When I did ramp I didn't have a problem with having wing walkers when there were bag carts or something in the way. I know of maybe 1 or 2 people that would have thrown their wands down and did something like that. This was on the C concourse but I think everyone else just knew that sort of stuff happens. I think having that gopher area right next to C25 is a stupid place to have it. I haven't pushed an ARJ in awhile but that would suck trying to clear that and turn into the alley like that.

Thought I should throw some cents into the pot since I know where you guys are talking about and all that good stuff


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

On the comment about 9E cancelling....

NW has a "snow plan," or IROP's. Within the plan, Airlink flights are generally cancelled first, then mainline ops second. More or less, the issue becomes capacity constraints upon the airport and for deicing. Thus, cancel 3 CRJ's, or 3 757's, both take up the same amount of space in the departure line and in the stack, but 3 CRJ's affect 150 people max versus over 500. Also, the aircraft and crew routings are generally more complicated for mainline flights and irregular ops can throw a wrench into ops across the country where canceling the regional ops makes recovery a lot easier. Plus those aircraft mostly due out and back flying. Whether it be 9E or XJ, NW attempts to inconvience the least number of people while attempting to maintain operations.

In regards to the PLN and APN item.....APN doesn't receive scheduled CRJ service and the ground crew probably hasn't received the training, manuals, paperwork, equipment to handle such ops. Thus diverting the CRJ to APN from PLN isn't a viable option. Plus when you hit the fuel limit, you gotta turn around, no questions asked. The Saab on the other hand, might have had plenty of time and probably had a different diversion location in mind.

Wing-walking is fun, I guess some people are just lazy. We use 2 on our CRJ cuz its RON parking space is shoe-horned in between a Comair CRJ and another one of our Saabs. There isn't much room to spare on either side. Its weird to think, but yeah the CRJ does have a rather low wing.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1447 times:
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MSPXJGuy, I'm a bag runner. There were two BC's, and me and another bag runner that met the flight. Once the plane was unloaded, only me and one of the BCs stayed to start rerouting.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
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