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Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub  
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

From : ATWONLINE.COM

Emirates is examining the feasibility of setting up a major hub at Auckland, according to New Zealand and Dubai sources, which would put intense competitive pressure on Qantas and Air New Zealand.

It is looking at services from Auckland to Fiji, Los Angeles/San Francisco and Buenos Aires as part of a major South Pacific expansion that would give it round-the-world capability.

Emirates is expected to be granted a second daily flight between Sydney and Dubai this year and will use its new Australia-New Zealand rights to draw Australian passengers onto its South Pacific network.

Planning also is well advanced for an Oct. start of a new flight from Perth to Auckland or Christchurch that will be part of increased services to western Australia.

The carrier currently flies a daily Dubai-Perth flight. It will increase to 11 times a week from Oct. with a four-times-weekly Dubai-Perth-Auckland or Christchurch service.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7748 times:

Where would passengers at this hub go to? Connect to go on to Dubai? Why not set up a hub at a more centrally located location?

-COTXDFW777AA



Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7717 times:

Yeah, My guess that would likely make added new hub in AKL and could get expansion into the south pacific ocean flight. It would be very good to go into LAX.

User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

LOL...the thought of Auckland with any more Intl. flights is mind boggling. To be honest I'd be surprised if we got anything more than that Perth flight and direct AKL-DXB flights from now. The Market is saturated right now.

User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7676 times:

mmmm I don't particulalry see AKL as a great choice for a hub.
Unless there is a major refurbishment of AKL airport, the excess flights would cause chaos.
Aside from that, they would have very strong competition from the likes of QF/ANZ/Air Pacific/Aerolineas/Lan Chile etc etc


User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5310 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Such a move would not be particularly unexpected. The potential for an Emirates African hub was mentioned on a number of occasions; an Auckland hub would not be far removed either.

Also an explanation for their fleet ambitions.

Jeremiah


[Edited 2004-02-23 04:27:12]


Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

This thread sounds like a joke. Auckland is just not suitable as an airhub. It is at the end of line as far as air traffic goes, the local market is way too small (as evidenced by Air NZ's repeated and unsuccessful attempts to gain more market share elsewhere) and where would the flights connect to? The immediate aread, apart from Australia, consists of Pacific islands and South America is far, with a low concentration of business traffic. It's just the sort of stunt a subsidised carrier like Emirates with emptyless pockets would try.
As for drawing more Australian passengers via Auckland....maybe, but they would have to offer substantially cheaper fares than QF or Air NZ. Air NZ at the moment is dirt cheap to the US, which goes to show how serious they are about defending their already bite-sized market share.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2749 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7466 times:

Hmmmm, sounds kinda ridiculous.

Surely Sydney's a better option. This just sounds stupid.


User currently offlineFuffla From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7426 times:

Yeah, SYD would be a better hub option. AKL would not be able to fit any more flights into their scheduals could they? SYD has room to expand and Emirates would be a good airline to do it. It would boost their performance levels and give out economy a shove in the right direction, which it does not really need at the moment. OF and NZ have enough competition at the moment anyway, with Pacific and Virgin Blue running up behind them, they have been forced to enter the low cost market themselves.


Go to http://www.chiefcodemonkey.com


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7371 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Emirates is considering MEL-CHC with 3-4 return flights per week. This flight would be done with the A345, so it would be direct from MEL to Dubai. Emirates is also planning on doing direct Dubai to AKL flights also using the A345

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12599 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

Wouldn't it make more sense to build up their hub at DXB before doing something at AKL. After all, given ANZ's recent financial trouble, I really can't see why the NZ govt would want to give them such extensive rights.

With widebody acft of the types EK wants being at a premium, EK really needs to get its priorities right. It's already had to cancel its second daily at BHX, its third daily MAN seems constantly put back and most importantly, when is the DUB flight coming?

It would make far more sense for EK to follow a specific market development plan - as it has been doing, not just allowing itself to be diverted by ideas like this.


User currently offlineAirbrasil From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Here is the info:


Emirates looking at setting up hub in Auckland
Dateline: Monday February 23, 2004

Emirates is examining the feasibility of setting up a major hub at Auckland, according to New Zealand and Dubai sources, which would put intense competitive pressure on Qantas and Air New Zealand.

The Dubai-based airline is looking at services from Auckland to Fiji, Los Angeles/San Francisco and Buenos Aires as part of a major South Pacific expansion that would give it round-the-world capability.
Emirates is expected to be granted a second daily flight between Sydney and Dubai this year and will use its new Australia-New Zealand rights to draw Australian passengers onto its South Pacific network. Planning also is well advanced for an Oct. start of a new flight from Perth to Auckland or Christchurch that will be part of increased services to western Australia.

The carrier currently flies a daily Dubai-Perth flight. It will increase to 11 times a week from Oct. with a four-times-weekly Dubai-Perth-Auckland or Christchurch service.--Geoffrey Thomas



User currently offlineFlyinghighboy From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7240 times:

well i think AKL would be an alright idea, QF would scream if EK set up a hub in SYD, if EK did offer nice prices and a decent schedule, they go use this for their Australian-LAX services and compete against UA and QF.
With UA you have to go through SYD anyway, with QF there are dialy flights from Melbourne but with EK on their back it would put a bit of pressure on QF to lower their airfares a bit.


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Even to South America QF have had a nice ride with Lan Chile operating their flights. If Emirates taps into the South American market, it could cause a bit of a headache for Lan and AR!!
Emirates have already been recruiting in Argentina, Venezuela and Brasil. They where planning on connecting up Dubai with Buenos Aires either direct or via Brasil.


User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7172 times:

Sounds to me like their global ambitions and options are being explored.

New Zealand offers a very free market economy, evidenced by our open skies agreements. A couple of well located hubs like DXB, Johannesburg and AKL would give EK a commanding global presence beyond any other carrier. Emirates are looking at how world markets are emerging, not at how they are currently. South America is touted as the new continent for an economic boom and New Zealand (and AKL) provide a pretty impressive link to this market from Australasia.

Auckland's airport plans are well documented in regards to their growth aspirations - second runway, regional/turbo prop runway, new terminals etc - so infrastructural problems are not insurmountable and are being dealt with.

New Zealand is a good place to base a regional hub. We have technical skills in abundance, a stable upward trending economy, stable politics, great tourism, great business (very much part of the greater Australia-New Zealand market) and above all, governments that are not renowned for ranging on open sky agreements.

Don't totally quash the idea yet.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

This is what I think is the way EK is thinking :

1. Theyre going to base a few aircraft at AKL...most likely A 345s and A 343s.

2. They will fly them to Australia-US West Coast and Latin America from AKL nonstop.

3. They do not intend on taking pax from Latin Amer and SFO-LAX via AKL to DXB...no their main focus is on taking a chunk of the lucurative USA-AUST route which QF dominates with ANZ...QF has been well known to exploit its dominant position in this market segment so EK may want to curtail that!!!

4. EK will take pax from USA via AKL to all the major Aussie cities such as SYD-MEL-PER and BNE and the same applies to Latin American pax flying to Australia.

Doesnt this remind you of the way PAN AM use to operate in the 70s and 80s by basing 727s and 747s here and there around the world !!!



User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7056 times:

EK setting up a hub in AKL is not a surprise at all, QF and EK have been talking to airport management about a new international terminal at AKL for sometime now.

EK has also made it clear to AKL airport they are wanting to fly the A380 to AKL in the near future so future terminal developments would be necessary




-
User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7013 times:

that second runway as all the 'new' plans show is a pipe dream and won't happen in that form at least. Last plan I saw favoured the cross runway formation. That would be better than having such a short runway running parallel. I'm sorry but short of AIAL flattening the current Intl. airport and rebuilding it will never manage to cope effectively with what Emirates have planned even if by some fluke Whenuapai did go ahead as a domestic/regional.

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2749 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

From what I understand, AKL's second runway is due to begin in 2006. It will be a parallel runway, shortened from the original plans and will thus most likely be confined to domestic flights. This would suggest that newer domestic terminals will have to be built north of the current international terminal.

I believe all objections to these plans have now been dealt with.

Meanwhile, this Emirates story is starting to sound more and more ridiculous. Take Australian pax from East Coast Oz cities, via AKL to the US? Meaning, if their final destination was anywhere other than LA, their flight would entail at least 2 stops. Unless EK offered considerably lower prices, and to date they have not on the Tasman, QF would respond accordingly and absolutely swamp this.

AKL-South America? HA! you're kidding right? Not only is this market notoriously low yielding, but almost the entire continent of South America is an absolute basket case at the moment (Chile aside). Argentina is still crippled from recent economic and political meltdowns (was it 4 presidents in 3 weeks? Or the other way around?), Brazil is an absolute mess, and the northern countries are busy fighting pseudo-civil wars.

South America has been "tipped" to be an economic goldmine for decades. Instead, it's become an absolute basketcase. Thje demand for travel isn't there. The demand for business isn't there. The logic of this is seriously warped. "Create an international network based on startegic hubs" - eh? "Like Pan Am" - whazza?! Pan Am went bust people, big time. Emirates has no alliance network behind it, and is desperately trying to become completely dominant in aviation and the sectors it serves so that within a few years time, when its massive (and growing) fleet comes up for maintenance/replacement, it has the leverage to deal with it affordably. EK has a very small window of opportunity to do this. If it fails, I see dark clouds ahead. And I don't see AKL as being a 'strategic hub'.



User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3189 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Emirates making AKL are hub, are they kidding. I am surprised that they are flying 3 large planes, 777s and A340 between AKL-BNE/SYD/MEL; I just can't see how they would be making a profit. Now they want to add more service. AKL-LAX might be feasible, but AKL-South America, Emirates are kidding themselves.

I thing in Emirates favour is that they have better times for travelling across the Tasman especially coming from Brisbane, Qantas run 1 plane a day between BNE-AKL which leaves around Midday, connecting to LAX, while the return flight from Auckland leaves at 7;30am, meaning you have too get up at 4;30am(1;30am Brisbane time)to get to the airport. Totally stuffs me for a few days due to the time difference. Qantas seem so worried about getting enough profit from each flight, that Emirates seem happy to grow the market.

Too me, Auckland Airport has a messy layout, with International, Qantas and Air NZ each being in a separate buildings. If they do want to add a 2nd runway, remove the domestic buildings and link them to the International buildings on the northern side.

When they built the international terminal why did they have Arrivals and Departures on the same floor. They could do worse than knock it all down and start again.  Big grin








Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineQantas747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Here's a thought, maybe starting direct flights from SYD/MEL to either Rio, Sao Paulo or Santiago, their A345's would surely be able to make the range. thrice-weekly could do I I suppose. I figure QF would probably start Brazil flights if the ever got a 7E7 with enough range.........

But AKL as a hub? I agree that it is saturated. One of the airlines out of the major 4 will have to go. And my thinking is that it will be Pacific Blue Or Emirate, because QF are able to give dirt cheap fares and handle the business well, same with Air NZ ( to a lesser extent) but the Kiwi's would never not support their natiuonal airline... would they? Emirates may pull out, but I think they are just using up aircraft stand time, to get more out of their aircraft. The only one left is Pacific Blue. I just get that funny feeling they won;t be on the circuit for too long with some of the fares I have seen by QF ( last I saw it was about $280 RETURN from SYD to WLG and CHC. 4 airlines is way to big for trans-tasman.. Think of TT as Ozzie domestic, neither could support 4 full airlines... it is becoming very unreasonable..


User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

I agree, AKL is almost at saturation point. Has anyone been there in the afternoon when it is straining at the seams with every gate being utilised and loads of a/c on remote stands??????

Mmmmhhhh me thinks Pacific Blue won't last the distance either. Way too much excess capacity. NZ appears to be enjoying healthy loads ex AKL & WLG to Australia these days.



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Aerokiwi just to educate you:

The Economic condition of places like Argentina and Brasil have changed since the demise of most countries at the end of 2001. Yes a WHOLE 3 years ago!
Coutries like Aargentina, Brasil and even Chile have had to pay a heafty price for policies implemented by the IMF(but that is another issue).

Argentina ;
The Economy grew a whopping 8.3% in 2003 compared to -10.9% in 2002 so as you can see why people still refer to South America as "the next boom".
Brasil
The economy may have shrunk to 2% in 2001-2003.But it is still the largest economy in Latin Aamerica (maybe behind Mexico)
Chile
Has a GDP of 2.1%, and one of the most stable Goverments in South America.

So where does the "Chile aside" comment come from. All that Chile has is a free trade agreement with the US and a stable Goverment

If there is no demand for people to travel there, then why was there not a single seat available to travel between SYD-EZE/SCL with either Lan or AR from December of last year till around the end of this month? Even with AUD$2500 for a return ticket to South America, planes are still going back and forth full.
Take a good look next time you are in the streets of AKL and you will find a big Brasilian community.

Please don't take this info as a personal attack, i simply wanted to point some things out.

I do agree though with you that the logistics for EK to set up a hub in AKL is 'ridiculous'. Although with the ability that EK has to 'print money' I am sure that any new venture will not harm their bottom line.







User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

TBIT - just checked our records for AR and LA's loads to South America ex New Zealand and Australia. As I'm fairly busy I only had time to check 2 dates for each.

AR - on January 18th they had 81 pax, on January 11th they had 87.

LA had over 40 empty seats on one date in January I checked and 20 empty on the other.

Perhaps time to get a new travel agent?!



-
User currently offlineBrutie From New Zealand, joined Sep 2003, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6341 times:

Very interesting (and surprising!) topic. I'd love to know what NZ (airline and country) is getting in return for giving EK a free run!

Following is a link to a story in today's NZ Herald - it answers some of the questions raised re runways, stands etc.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3550870


25 Aerokiwi : TBCITDG: Perhaps you should look at your figures again. It's not hard to grow in double digit growth right after your economy has shrunk 10-20% in a y
26 Aussie747 : Ridiculous as this sounds the most telling tale is where does Emirates expect to gain approval to operate to LAX, Fiji etc. some market routes are alr
27 Flyinghighboy : i don't see anything wrong with EK expanding in diffrent markets, EK has really put the heat on some of the other carriers to shape up. I doubt they'l
28 AirAotearoa : Has anybody thought of the scenario that EK might take a mighty chunk of NZ. They then have a hub in AKL (not to mention CHC as well on a lesser scale
29 Lufthansa : BNE you should know that emirates are now the number one carrier between BNE and AKL! Thats right, the new kid on the block is kicking everybodys butt
30 AVANTI : It's just the sort of stunt a subsidised carrier like Emirates with emptyless pockets would try. Hmmm... EK's critics often claim that it is a 'subidi
31 Lufthansa : hey QFclub...... give em a go, they not as evil as u think AVOID THE PAPARAZZI - FLY EMIRATES
32 TOLtommy : DXB sounded like a bad place for a hub at one time as well.... Air NZ is weak, QF is not. They'd have a much harder time taking biz away from QF. Henc
33 Motorhussy : TOLtommy Air NZ is weak, QF is not. They'd have a much harder time taking biz away from QF. What gives you this impression? Are you confusing size wit
34 TOLtommy : Actually Motorhussy, I was comparing the government bailout of Air NZ, versus the free market strength of QF. Don't confuse being propped up by the NZ
35 Brutie : TOLtommy, I'd like to take issue with a few things in your last post: 1) Claiming that QF operates in a "free market" is a bit of a joke - NZ operates
36 Jet-lagged : Emerites is very agressive. I wonder if they won't end up like Brannif. Over-extended and in financial troubles.
37 ToBEYwithMEA : God, This airline won't stop. Do they have any concern for money, But what the hey, It'll be cool to see them around Auckland
38 ZK-NBT : This is not surprising at all, we are after all talking about Emirates! AKL is in at least as good a spot as SYD really for mine! I mean EK wouldn't g
39 VH-BZF : I gather from a recent business trip I made to AKL, it currently struggles around early afternoon to cope with so many flights! I have a friend who wo
40 ZK-NBT : AKL is starting to expand now with more new layovers and eventually a new pier, which should help them cope a little better at peak times! I have a fr
41 TG992 : EK's loads on the SYD-AKL are usually in the low 100s. They don't have a good yield from what I hear. BNE-AKL flights are doing better than MEL and SY
42 Post contains images Anxebla : ummm.... above all,this seem just a joke...."TAKE OVER THE AVIATION WORLD"??? Anyway...EK is the last one in to arrive.Let's wait and see.Don't be sca
43 BA : Anyone know how EK's loads are on DXB-SYD? I'm sure they are high, but I am pretty sure yields are low. I hear Lebanese fill the flight because of the
44 TG992 : Anxeble - I'm deadly serious. National airlines in countries that have full freedom for foreign carriers (such as New Zealand, for example) now have t
45 Brutie : Quite right TG992. Why the hell do we give full freedom? Seems like the equivalent of walking round with a "Kick Me" sign on our back!
46 Post contains images Aerorobnz : It'll work the same has Flight Centre runs it I suspect. They apparently have huge term deposits & various slush funds that gains interest like you wo
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