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El Al-style Security On U.S. Flights  
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Who thinks we should have El Al-syle security on U.S. flights? The cost would be enormous. The U.S. would turn into a more oppressive regime, but the measures seem to be effective. So what do you think?

[Edited 2004-02-24 08:08:15]


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEzycrew From Spain, joined Oct 2001, 460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

If US intelligence can prove that an El Al kind of security is necessary, then I am totally in favor. I would even like a similar measure taken here in Europe in case of proven and imminent threat.
However maybe a more competent agency than the TSA should be set up for it to be efficient.


User currently offlineKempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Israel faces a constant imminent threat of terror related to ELAL planes and facilities. The cost associated with the very real security threat can be absorbed by the defense budget.

The U.S. and Europe face a medium threat of terror, and have many, many more flights than ELAL or even if you count all flights to and from Israel on other carriers.

The cost of having one-on-one interviews and inspections lasting from ten minutes to more than one hour for every passenger would be enormous, not to mention all the other security measures that are not in plain view. Who would absorb the associated costs? Defense budget or the passengers? If it takes longer and becomes harder and more expensive to fly, people would drive 10 to 15 hours to avoid flying.

That is not the case with Israel. There are very few alternatives to air travel to get to Israel.

That said, if the US threat level is raised to red, I think that many additional measures will be implemented to heighten security in the sky, and some of those will not be traveller-friendly.


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3415 times:

I take issue with the US being called an "oppressive regime." We can discuss that ad nauseum in another forum.

I de not believe El Al style security is necessary or cost-effective. As has been stated, the US faces a very different threat compared to Isreal, and the Isreali Defense budget absorbs most of the costs that our economy could never handle.

In the US, to ask people to be subjected to between fifteen and sixty minutes of screening would not only be a violation of individual rights; it would be a death-knell to every airline currently operating. After all, who would want to arrive three hours before departure and spend half an hour being interrogated and having their bags searched for a one-hour flight when they could drive the distance without the hassle in six or eight hours?

Air travel would transfer back to the super-rich, and the only "airlines" that would survive would be the likes of Executive Beechcraft and other similar operations.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineB747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Tower Air operated many years between JFK and TLV and catered to the Jewish passenger market. Their security consultants were all from Israel and never had any major security problem. Obviously, these people know quite a bit about security.
xxx
I flew a few times ferrying airplanes to/from Bedek Aviation in TLV for maintenance, proceeding back or from TLV as a passenger, and was subject to their security scrutiny, I have to say, they are the best. With them in charge, there would never have been a SEP 11 tragedy...
xxx
After New York, Buenos Aires has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel, and be aware that Aerolineas Argentinas security department has close ties with security experts who are former EL AL employees, or agents from Israel...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineVectorVictor From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

First you write a letter wanting to let visitors back on the concourses and now you want to know what people think of El Al style security.

-Neither is compatible with the other
-The U.S. has absolutely no need for the type of security El Al provides


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

We don't need that kind of security.

If anyone threatens to take over the plane with box cutters again, there will be another "Let's Roll"

If a passenger blows up a plane in flight such as a bomb in his suitcase etc, El Al Security or even the best onboard security in the world will not prevent that.


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

If a passenger blows up a plane in flight such as a bomb in his suitcase etc, El Al Security or even the best onboard security in the world will not prevent that.

El-Al security did prevent such things in the past.
In 86 El-Al security found a bomb that Brithish security in Heathrow didn't!
The "shoe bomber" in 2001 (or 02) checked El-Al and decided not to try it on El-Al.

You should remember one more thing.
All El-Al has is security. One successful terror attack on El-Al aircraft and you can close the company. It’s different with US or EU airlines.



Long live the B747
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3232 times:

Elwood64151 wrote:

I take issue with the US being called an "oppressive regime." We can discuss that ad nauseum in another forum.

Allow me to clarify. I didn't mean to imply that the U.S. is an oppressive regime. But there's no denying the fact that if we did implement this level of security the U.S. would become more oppressve.



VectorVictor wrote:

First you write a letter wanting to let visitors back on the concourses and now you want to know what people think of El Al style security.

-Neither is compatible with the other
-The U.S. has absolutely no need for the type of security El Al provides


You're right, neither is compatible with the other. In fact, I'm not advocating El Al-security in the U.S. But I am posing the question so we can have a debate and see where everyone stands.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineMsllsmith From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 396 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3208 times:

"Tower Air operated many years between JFK and TLV and catered to the Jewish passenger market. Their security consultants were all from Israel and never had any major security problem. Obviously, these people know quite a bit about security."

I agree. I was a FA with Tower and have gone on to fly with other airlines. Invariably, I took security much more seriously......the topic is too large to fully discuss in this venue, however, I look back on it with a number of thoughts:

1) I actually got bounced out of a training program once because I objected strongly to their lame security training (this is pre-9/11), which we in the US just fulfilled the FAA syllabus requirements with garbage at the time. My FAA rep wanted me to report it, but I was a little embarrassed I'd made such a big deal until...

2) I sat in my loft in B'klyn and had the dust of the WTC blow in my window.... and

3) Through an absolutely bizarre turn of events realized a week later that in the context of a job I had had extensive contact with the very guys (not appropriate to go into here either) who flew into the towers....the FBI was quite happy to debrief me a half dozen times.... and

4) It made me physically ill afterward, when as a former FA trainer, the enormity of how bad our security training was continued to haunt me...

5) I'm not as against profiling as would be pc..... and am quite happy to stand in line with a trash novel and a fresh pedicure....for as long as it takes.

6) Finally El Al seems to have made a difficult process relatively short and above all REAL and EFFICIANT.... Let's give this TSA thing a chance to find and train people in the same manner.

Off the soapbox....






There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

El Al security means psychological profiling of passengers, increased screening of bags and "cowboys" (air marshials) on board the aircraft...

And yes this kind of security has prevented bombs in the cargo hold on past occations and also hijack attempts and so on...

The idea is to profile the passengers and there for try to prevent bags going on board an aircraft with out the passenger being cleared...

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineRonE From Israel, joined Jan 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

There is no doubt that El-Al's security measures are very efficient.

Considering the increase in threats the U.S., and to a lesser extent Europe is facing, there is plenty of room for improvement in the security department.

However, having extensive measures for every plane on every airline in the U.S. like El-Al has is just not feasible economically.

People forget El-Al has a very small fleet- 15 aircraft at the most. In the U.S. we are talking about thousands of aircrafts. The numbers speak for themselves ladies and gentlemen...


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Honestly, I think it would be a waste of money. US airliners are very, very, rarely hijacked, and our risk of terrorism compared to Israel's is small (because Israel's is so enormous). I know terrorism is on everyones mind with aviation lately but, honestly, do we really need it? I also think that after Sept.11, with the passengers uprising against the terrorists, and its likelihood to occur again if another plane is hijacked, numbers of people outweigh armed guards. 155 against 5, you do the math. It isnt worth the money...they are much better things we could put it towards...like screeners who do their jobs! (When flying MDW - MCI in November, the screener turned her head away while my bag went through the x-ray machine....LOVELY!)

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3096 times:

Rather than implementing El Al security measures in the US, I would rather have El Al security experts train the US security guards for how to look for suspicious passengers and how to best increase security around airports. It is impossible to have long interviews before every flight, but it is very possible and makes sense to have the TSA follow some El Al tactics.

User currently offlineJfernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

As pointed out earlier, while a great idea, there are two major objections to this style of security:

1) Civil rights advocates going completely nutso

and

2) The huge amount of air travel in the US as compared to Israel.

I think that 1 will eventually be more acceptable as the number of attacks in the US increases. As far as 2, you're simply dealing with an economic situation which isn't very good for airlines, and the consumers won't be happy with the costs.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

The Sept 11 fees would then SKYROCKET to probably $30 bux one way if this program was ever put in place.  Wow!


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Rjpieces, I agree about having El Al Security experts training our people. But let's not forget that the TSA has taken its place in the boondoggle hall of fame. It was a screw up from the beginning. It should never have been placed under the DOT. This is not a Transportation issue, people. It's a Law Enforcement issue! The TSA should be under the Dept of Justice. The requirements to be a screener in the US should be far more stringent. Training should be done by either the FBI at Quantico or down in Brunswick, GA.
I know, welcome to Soapbox City.
The simple fact is we had an opportunity to REALLY improve aviation security in the US and, as usual, we blew it.



Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
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