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Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace  
User currently offlineShlomoz From Israel, joined Jun 2000, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Very often I see commerical aircraft flying in Israeli airspace, way east of TLV environs, seemingly on their way to Jordan, flying eastbound about 30km north of Jerusalem. There are quite a few every day and they seem to include 747's (or A340's?) and 767's and 777's.

For example, yesterday (Monday) I saw a 747 at 13:30 GMT.

Any insights? Are these all bound for Jordan? Are they headed elsewhere? Where can I get info on these flights (to figure out what they are)?

Thanks

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

El Al training flights? IDF 707s? USAF aircraft to, as you say, Jordan?


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineKempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 3419 times:

Can't aircraft from countries that have diplomatic relations with Israel fly over Israeli airspace? Let's say, Air France flying to some place in South Asia could overfly Israel, then Jordan, and on. Even if it was flying to Saudi Arabia, couldn't it overfly Israel?

User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 3401 times:

Kempa, that's a good question. I dont think though that there are any instances like your example.
AirFrance enroute to Asia flies North of Israel, as do all the other European Airlines. Those flights are most probably for Jordan or EL AL flights that departed TLV for the Far east and Africa. They depart TLV toward Jerusalem, then south to dead sea - eilat - red sea - sharm.


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

As said, it can be only an aircraft from TLV or Jordanian aircraft on its way to Jordan. Nothing else. Foreign airlines don’t fly to Jordan, not to mention ant other destination, over Israel even if they fly to Israel (like AF).




Long live the B747
User currently offlineAms From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

AVI,

KL,AF is having service to AMM.


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Ams:
AVI,
KL,AF is having service to AMM.


I know, but they don't fly over Israel on their way to AMM.



Long live the B747
User currently offlineRonE From Israel, joined Jan 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Maybe some South East Asian carrier flying to a central/southern European destination: eg flights between Rome and Singapore.

User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

No way.
Israel has no way to control the security checks on these flights and for security reasons there are no flights of foreign companies over Israel except the Jordanian company.
Still, if we put the security problems aside, I don’t think Israel is under any important route from the Far East to Europe.

I’m sure that in the Middle East reality, Israeli security personals will be very happy if Jordanian flights don’t fly over Israel, but this has enormous political effect, so Israel let these flights to continue and everybody hope that everything will be ok.
However, Israel demanded from the Jordanian authorities to put arm security guards on these flights and they did.




Long live the B747
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

They are propably heading for the Persian Gulf, Iran, Pakistan or the likes, I have never heard any ban of schedueled airlines, be it Saudi Arabian, Emirates, Iran or Syrian...

They can fly over selected routes if they file and comply with ATC, like anywhere else in the world...

I remember I saw 3 Jordanian Air Force helicopters flying over Israel...So there is a lot of air traffic and of every kind...

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

WINDSHEAR:
"They can fly over selected routes if they file and comply with ATC, like anywhere else in the world"??????!!!!!??????
NO WAY!!!!
Most definetly not .... Saudi Arabian, Emirates, Iranian or Syrian a/c or heading to these countries cannot fly over Israel. It is not allowed by the Israeli authorities and not allowed by the authorities of the Arab states.
Jordanian as mentioned by Avi are the only ones. They too only after permission.


User currently offlineShlomoz From Israel, joined Jun 2000, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

So, Amir, Avi: bottom line is that any commercial plane flying overhead here in "Eastern Mateh Binyamin" is Jordanian?

User currently offlineEL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

While i was wacthing in Tzrifin I saw Royal Jordanian A340-200 flying right over Ben Gurion in something like 10.000-15.000 feet.

EL-AL



"In our country, those who do not believe in miracles are irrational" - David Ben Gurion.
User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

You could be seeing israeli domistic flights.... no?

User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Hmmm now I recall visiting Jerusalem and seeing some sort of MD-80/90 flying directly overhead from the southeast (i.e. south of Amman but from say mid-Dead Sea) making contrails at altitude and thinking....huh?
My only guess (this was 1999) was Austrian MD-80 coming from Dubai or somesuch.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineCoa764 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 328 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

You can overfly a country as long as you get and overfly permit. An airline has to request one from the country's government and if approved, would be paying a nice fee to the country in question. You may have seen a charter flight running troops back and forth to Kuwait. Charters are also overlying Iraq airspace now to cut down on the time and fuel it take to route around it. The Ironic thing is that at altitude that airspace is one of the safest in the world.


Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

There are plenty of USAF heavies out there, a lot of them stop over at Nevatim AFB.


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
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