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L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation  
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 9629 times:

Thirteen Air New Zealand cabin crew members were flown home from the United States without their passengers after witnessing a suicide on their way to work.

Full story at the link below - pretty grim stuff.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3551192&thesection=news&thesubsection=general

I'm an employee of NZ so I may be biased - but the fact NZ took a $50,000 loss by cancelling this flight to ensure their employees received proper follow-up care and attention makes me damned proud to work for them!

[Edited 2004-02-25 03:02:24]


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41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9503 times:

WOW! That was absolutely the right thing for NZ to do with that crew! I would be hard pressed to believe that any of the American carriers would have been that kind unless the Unions stepped in and threw a fit.

You have to treat your crews well if you want a successful business! NZ showed class and compassion in this incident! Something that those 13 crew will likely never forget!

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9449 times:

That was a very caring and kind gesture that the management of NZ showed to there employees.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6298 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9382 times:

Bravo for NZ....Bravo indeed...I agree that no American Airline would do that for their crew...

User currently offlineCalvin99 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2001, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9296 times:

wow.. good job air nz..!! thats the right thing to do

User currently offlineAA777MIA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

Way to go NZ, and the crew of NZ for trying to save this person's life afterward. What a horrible thing to witness.

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9120 times:

Hats off to Air NZ, that had to be a horrible day for the flight crew and it's nice to see a airline taking care of their own.

User currently offlineIHadAPheo From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 6027 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 9045 times:

This effort shows that NZ is a class act all around , first from the crew having had the horrific event happen to them and that they tried to provide aid to the person was outsanding, Second the way that AZ's managment treated their employee's was first class as well (no pun intended)

Yours,
IHadAPheo



Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
User currently offlineScarletHarlot From Canada, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 4673 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 9036 times:

That is definitely classy of Air NZ but I am sure they were covering their own butts as well. Imagine if any crew members had lost it on the flight.


But that was when I ruled the world
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13028 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 8818 times:

AirNZ did the right thing. (per the article, the crew was on the way to LAX and a person commited suicide by jumping from a freeway overpass and landing on/near their van). Obiously they were in no condition to work and they didn't have enought crew to cover for them so Air NZ made the only real decision without disruption to future flights. One question I have is what did they do with the passangers who were supposed to be on that flight? Put them on UA, Qantas or other airline flights or for the next day's flight?

User currently offlineNwfltattendant From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

Kudos to NZ management for making that decision. The human mind can play some real wacko games after an incident.... I bet the pilots loved that takeoff....hehehe....a 747-400 with NOBODY on it.... wheeee..... can you say climb rate !  Smile


Go yakkin !!!!!!
User currently offlineKevin752 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Air New Zealand is a great airline and I know that they would do something nice like that. Their F/a's are great and provide great service on their flights. NZ has a lot of class and I wish that I could fly with them again.


"Keep Climbing"
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 8579 times:

In answer to LTBEWR's question, our passengers were transferred to the following flights that night:

NZ005 LAX-AKL
NZ001 LAX-AKL
NZ053 LAX-PPT-RAR-AKL
QF026 LAX-AKL

Some passengers elected to stay overnight (at Air NZ's expense) and travelled on NZ003 the following day.



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User currently offlineAMM744 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2003, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months ago) and read 8351 times:

We've been with ANZ to LAX and back to LHR, both ways they were superb, very professional attentive service. A damn good airline and this incident just goes to show what a caring airline it is too.

Good on ya ANZ.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months ago) and read 8230 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

AirNZ did the right thing. (per the article, the crew was on the way to LAX and a person commited suicide by jumping from a freeway overpass and landing on/near their van).

The person landed on the NZ crews van, The van was dented but it was still drive able

 Smile/happy/getting dizzyThe post is from a DAMN PROUD kiwi Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineNORTHSEATIGER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

I must agree good to show to the NZ management a bit of compassion.


T's And P's look good....Rotate
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1783 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

Sorry everyone, but I don't agree one bit.

I wonder what those crew members would have done if one of their passengers was seriously hurt or sick on board, or if their plane crashed and they had to help badly injured passengers get to safety.

Would they be shocked and disturbed, like they were when they saw the badly hurt (dead?) suicide victim?

I agree that it is disturbing to see someone commit suicide, but it is an eventuality like any other, say a plane crashing and cabin crew are supposed to be trained to face such disasters with presence of mind and maturity. They should not lose control and get sick like wussies when such events occur.

The crew in question should be grounded and put through retraining!

[Edited 2004-02-25 21:38:17]


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3333 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7697 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

did NZ pay $50,000 to just fly w/o passengers or no? Glad to see that the Kiwi crew were very helpful after just witnessing a horrific thing.


Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7605 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

DIJKKIJK,
You must live in a very dark world. Although the crew was on the way to the airport, the incident did not occur during the course of their professional duties. Comparing anticipated reactions on and off the aircraft is not a valid measurement. I think what NZ did shows integrity and class.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineJmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7586 times:

I respectfully disagree with DIJKKIJK,

If I was on my way to work, weather be here in an office, or a 14 hour trans pacific flight, and on my way to work, a guy jump off a bridge, landed on my car, that I was in, I don't think I would be in the best of conditions that day for work.
If I had to face 300 or so people that night, and be there for 12 hour flight, I think the security, safety, service, would certainly be compromised.
Would you want to still fly, knowing what the cabin crew just went through.
luckly ANZ has several flights from LAX to be reacommidate on.

In my mind, ANZ is not a heartless company, , and knowing that, that would influence my decision on selling the airline to clients, friends and family.




Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7509 times:

Dijkkijk

Your comment is almost uncomprehensibly stupid. As someone who works in the field of aviation safety I can tell you that it is extraordinarily dangerous to assume that training dehumanises flight crew such that they are not affected by any events of this nature, whether it be on board or elsewhere. It is exactly the reverse of what you say - any staff member who does NOT have a normal human emotional response to such incidents should be regarded as a potential problem.

Any intelligent airline stands down a crew member who has to deal with such an incident. It has nothing to do with being a 'wuss'. It is just good risk management. This crew (I hope ) had no choice in the matter. They were there - the flight crew were not. The crew members to be concerned about would be those who wanted to continue with their duty and pushed to do so.

I would imagine that most of them as professionals would have said something like 'I'm feeling shocked, but I'll be OK', and would then be stood down by their manager, and they would not have protested. If any of them got hysterical or excessively distressed at the scene - warning sign. If any of them assertively said that they wanted to keep working - bigger warning sign.

If it is true that there are airlines that would NOT have stood down a crew in such circumstances, then I would have big questions about their management practices and I would not want to fly with them. My response is neither to believe that the crew weak, nor that Air NZ were especially compassionate. I would just say ' sound management - just what I would expect as a safety professional'.


User currently offlineLaw4fun From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7446 times:

Incredible CLASS shown by ANZ! Hats off to their management for their foresight.


Canon Shutter Slut
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7414 times:

More to Dijkdijk

I have just noticed that you are from the Netherlands. Your national passenger rail company, NSR, experiences about 50 people a year killed by trains - either as suicides or by accident. NS SOP's require the machinist (driver) to remain in the cab in such circumstances, and that the conductor deals with the mess on the track. Afterwards both driver and conductor are required by regulation to be stood down for two days, and are entitled to more days if necessary through their employment contract. The company also makes counsellors available on request.

I trust that KLM practices are similar. If you are, in fact, a KLM employee, or are reflecting a KLM attitude, then I will certainly never fly by them again.


User currently offlineAznCsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

This message is for DIJKKIJK

If you read the article it said the crew did help the person jumping off the freeway bridge. They said nothing about those crew walking away from the sense. The following statement was copied from the article.

Mr Sims said the crew went to assist but the person was dead and they were "faced with a horrific scene".

We are only human, it normal to react like this. Put yourself in their shoes, would you be able to work a 12hrs flight if you just witness a dead like that? I think not....

NO! The crew would not be considered or grounded and put through retraining. They are not their to deal with these kind of situation. They are their to help and assist. It's the aftermath that hurt.

However, I do agree that the flight shouldn't have cancelled. The crew could been placed on a later NZ flight. As NZ5 could have been delayed while back-up crew are called to work. That could of save the company USD50,000.


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7245 times:

You might find most of th NZ crew are on minium rest at LAX, so there wasn't any real alternative to recrew the cancelled flight.

25 AznCsa4qf744er : I just realize that. Keep forgetting NZ crew rest operate differently than QF.
26 Jcded : An airline that dealt with the situation in a humane way that should be the standard. I do believe other airlines would have followed similar procedur
27 AA777MIA : DIJKKIJK: Your post is way out of line buddy.. First off the NZ crew actually tried to help the person that jumped. It was NZ management that made the
28 LImamura : I think that NZ has a lot of class for doing what they did. They clearly are very caring and a smart company. However, I keep asking myself - If I was
29 Noonerlicious : I think it was a nice gesture for NZ to "take care" of their crew but in reality they are in the industry where they would see things out of the norm.
30 Styles : Why does the flight deck crew take different transport from the hotel to the airport from the cabin crew? Do they stay at different hotels? Or, is it
31 Anxebla : I only can to say one thing: *I COULD HAVE BEEN PROUD FOR WORKING BY AIR NEW ZEALAND* dikkijk: How do you can BE so INSENSITIVE??? I can't understand
32 Tcfc424 : DIJ... As a firefighter, I have seen such scenes. Nowhere here or in the article has it been said that the crew did not/was not capable of handling an
33 Aa777jr : I have flown both QF and NW, both great airlines. I am glad to see that the airlines did the right thing. I disagree on the reference that no Domestic
34 Post contains images A340pilot : OK, This is a typical thread that has started with something terrible that happened to a flight crew ( who gets the thumbs up from me! ) and pretty mu
35 Rongotai : a340pilot Probably because he lives in the Netherlands and made his post in the evening, then went to bed, and will shortly wake up. Whether or not he
36 Airlinelover : First off, that was a real show of caring from the ANZ people. First, the crew, for going out to help from the shuttle when they didn't have to, secon
37 V2fix : Way to go Air New Zealand. This is exactly how a repsonsible employer should react and behave to its employees and customers. With care, repsonsibilit
38 ZK-NBT : Way to go Air NZ! Proud to be a Kiwi! Not all airlines would have done this, but I think most would of.
39 AFheart : I our dutchman friend DIJKKIJK is missing what's really important here. SAFETY. I am sure other airlines would have done somewhat the same. Obvious an
40 IrishMD11 : Firstly, hats off to the NZ management! DIJ... I don't know what your profession is, but I believe that I wouldn't like to have you as a work colleagu
41 LJ : One thing I know for certain now: Air New Zealand is a great airline with good mangement and employees. I trust that KLM practices are similar. If you
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