MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34356 posts, RR: 70
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4278 times:
I think it's because they are 'already' in talks with Boeing about fleet replacement.
This could/would/might be the break that the 717 needs.
No they aren't in talks with Boeing, and no, they are not going to be buying the 717. The reason they are replacing the MD80s is so they can run transcons from FLL (and with less limitiations on West Coast from DTW). They are most likely going to go for the A320 family.
BeltwayBandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4253 times:
Here's the press release that has people baffled. My understanding is that it does not mean much.
Boeing says not offering jets to Spirit Airlines
Friday February 13, 6:37 pm ET
SEATTLE, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - News), the No. 2 jetliner maker, said on Friday it was not offering aircraft to privately held Spirit Airlines, despite media reports that the carrier was shopping for narrow-body jets.
"We do not currently have an offer on the table at Spirit and at present we do not have plans to make one," said Boeing spokesman Nicolaas Groeneveld-Meijer.
News reports have said Ft. Lauderdale, Florida-based Spirit was negotiating an equity sale to Los Angeles investment firm Oaktree Capital Management, LLC (News - Websites) , worth more than $100 million and then might buy jets from Boeing or rival Airbus SAS (XETRA:EAD.DE - News; Paris:EAD.PA - News).
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11161 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
Good to see Spirit looking ahead for expansion. A320s or 737-800s would suit them quite well.
Does anyone know the number they are looking at? If they are looking at around 50, I'd say they are looking to replace their MD-80 fleet. If less than 30 or so, I'd say they are holding off on their replacements.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2919 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3876 times:
Mariner hit it on the head -- Boeing doesn't see a lot in offering smaller carriers deals like the bigger boys. In F9's case, Airbus did a lot to line up financing, etc., for the deal (hence such a large percentage of the debt belonging to European banks). Boeing doesn't see such an arrangement as profitable.
Now, one could say that this is another way that Airbus inflates orders, but if you're in the position of a smaller carrier, who cares as long as a deal can be done?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34356 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3852 times:
Even when NK gets new aircraft they will likely fly alongside their MD-80's. NK is looking toward expansion here, not necessarily replacement.
No they won't. The plan is to acquire up to sixty new aircraft and totally get rid of the MD80 fleet. However, at the same time, they do plane on getting more second-hand MD80s to cover short term growth, but they won't be with Spirit for long (4-6 years max).
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27348 posts, RR: 81
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
I agree with all you say about Airbus and the financing. It has been so successful for all parties, in Frontier's case, that the range is now extended beyond European financiers to Asian ones.
Even the Frontier's ATSB backed loan came mostly from a German bank, WestLB, courtesy of an Airbus introduction. Those many millions were paid back fast - just over a year - giving Frontier a superior credit rating with the Euro banks.
The puzzle is that Boeing will arrange financing too, but only for some airlines.
Boeing made Midwest an offer they couldn't refuse to take the 717's. The leases are all financed by Boeing, on very generous terms.
So I wonder why they wouldn't at least try to do something for Spirit?
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3782 times:
I think Boeing's shooting itself in the foot by denying business to airlines- even if they may seem small and pidly to them. Their arch nemesis Airbus is more than happy to sell to F9, B8, HP, etc etc....and I'd assume Spirit too.
Boeing's gonna kill themselves this way. They could have alot of 717 or 738 orders, and Spirit's colors would look AWESOME on one, as opposed to a stupid A320
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3405 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3581 times:
"Boeing has a history of treating smaller airlines badly."
Really, Mariner? They seemed to be treating AirTran well (large 737 order, the 717's were odered from MD), Ryanair was a small carrier at one time, same with WestJet. Perhaps Spirit just isn't interested in the 737? I'd like to see the 320 family there myself. I like the wider cabin.
CPDC10-30 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4945 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3271 times:
That has to be the most bizzare press release I have ever seen from Boeing. If they have such an attitude, why even bother making commercial aircraft anymore? I am sure the military business is much more profitable...
Blueairbureau From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3153 times:
In the past Boeing has had to eat orders which were not successfully taken up on some of it's a/c's(737ng's). I don't think they really want a "risk". I think they're are firmly planted on the 7E7 right now. If any one comes to the table asking for a handout I'll understand why they'll decline. Let's not forget most of the planes I fly on were bought with a discounted price from Micky D's right off the production line (but not to Spirit) so Micky D could say they sold something and to move already produced product. Do I like Boeing's attitude towards my company? Hell no. We don't deserve it. This company has good survival instincts. While other airlines were handing out so-called furllows (let's be honest they're really delayed pink slips!). My company was launching there plans for new routes. So we don't get boeing, what's the worst that could happen? We could get a good a/c well suited to the point to point flights my airline likes to fly in comparable comfort. The crew members will get a plane we are proud of. We'll get to fly around in one of the snazziest paint schemes in the sky. My company will make more money. I'll get to keep the shirt on my back. And well...........Boeing can plane eat my shorts! HMMMM.
: TOLtommy: As JetBluefan1 said, the Airtran order is a big order (100 aircraft from memory) and at the time, Airtran was perceived as being the 3rd lar
: I would hardly call the Spirit order small at 100 units... Additionally, I would not call Spirit small.. They are the largest privately held airline i
: There is an old saying. Sometimes, the best deal is the one that you don't do. I have heard Phil Condit say that it makes no sense to sell airplanes,
: CkFred, It would have helped if Boeing had offered to talk to Spirit. The idea that they did NOT want to negotiate with NK bodes poorly.
: UH, why isn't Boeing "offering" anything to Spirit? What, is Spirit's money not good enough for them? They shouldn't let what happened with Frontier h
: Since Boeing must answer to individual and institutional investors, rather than goverments, it has to worry about earnings per share and stock perfor
: Activale: Um - I didn't say "small" - I said "smaller". I think there's a difference. And, as I understand it the order will be for 60 aircraft, not 1
: You people should not jump to conclusions, that news report was not even detailed, something happened between Boeing & Spirit. It's almost certain tha
: Remember that, before the FL 737-700 deal, there was a lot of press saying that Boeing wasn't interested in selling to FL. That largely centered aroun
: Greaser: I'm not suggesting they will go with Airbus because I don't know that they will. They are in talks with Embraer as well. And, as Elwood says,