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Spirit Ruling Out Boeing?  
User currently offlineEzycrew From Spain, joined Oct 2001, 460 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

http://www.justplanes.com today :

Spirit
Revealed it is in talks with Airbus and Embraer about an order
for 60 or more new jets for use on its Florida routes.


Are they de facto excluding Boeing? I think a fleet like Air Tran's -717's and 737NG's - would fit well into their operation.



34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

I think it's because they are 'already' in talks with Boeing about fleet replacement.
This could/would/might be the break that the 717 needs.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

I thought Boeing told Spirit no thanks.

N


User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Why would they do that, it doesnt make sense. Wouldnt it be better for them to get a competing offer, or maybe that is why EMB is at the table.

User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

irony here: The MD80 is technicly boeing!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32618 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

I think it's because they are 'already' in talks with Boeing about fleet replacement.
This could/would/might be the break that the 717 needs.


No they aren't in talks with Boeing, and no, they are not going to be buying the 717. The reason they are replacing the MD80s is so they can run transcons from FLL (and with less limitiations on West Coast from DTW). They are most likely going to go for the A320 family.



a.
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

I thought along the same lines as GIG, I thought they were talking with Boeing already. Boeing would never say no thanks, I assure you!
ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBeltwayBandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Here's the press release that has people baffled. My understanding is that it does not mean much.

========================================


Reuters
Boeing says not offering jets to Spirit Airlines
Friday February 13, 6:37 pm ET


SEATTLE, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - News), the No. 2 jetliner maker, said on Friday it was not offering aircraft to privately held Spirit Airlines, despite media reports that the carrier was shopping for narrow-body jets.

"We do not currently have an offer on the table at Spirit and at present we do not have plans to make one," said Boeing spokesman Nicolaas Groeneveld-Meijer.

News reports have said Ft. Lauderdale, Florida-based Spirit was negotiating an equity sale to Los Angeles investment firm Oaktree Capital Management, LLC (News - Websites) , worth more than $100 million and then might buy jets from Boeing or rival Airbus SAS (XETRA:EAD.DE - News; Paris:EAD.PA - News).

Both Spirit and Oaktree have declined to comment.



User currently offlineNycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3938 times:

Why wouldnt boeing make an offer?


Father, Son, HOYA spirit
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7528 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Well, that Reuters article was dated over a week ago, before the money was a done deal. Who knows what may or may not have changed since then.

Besides, justplanes generally isn't the most reliable news source out there.

Even when NK gets new aircraft they will likely fly alongside their MD-80's. NK is looking toward expansion here, not necessarily replacement.


User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

It would be really exciting to see the Spirit digital c/s on either the A320 or the B737-800!

I cant wait to hear about their decision!



MEA321
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3732 times:

Good to see Spirit looking ahead for expansion. A320s or 737-800s would suit them quite well.

Does anyone know the number they are looking at? If they are looking at around 50, I'd say they are looking to replace their MD-80 fleet. If less than 30 or so, I'd say they are holding off on their replacements.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3711 times:
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Boeing has a history of treating smaller airlines badly. The Frontier fleet replacement deal was Boeing's to lose - and they did.

There may be more to it than we know, but it's a puzzle that they behave this way. 60 aircraft is a damn good order.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

Is that Spirit will trying to looking with new jets for Airbus or Boeing? Which one is best airplanes is Airbus or Boeing? Can you find out about exactly what is going on for next?

User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
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Mariner hit it on the head -- Boeing doesn't see a lot in offering smaller carriers deals like the bigger boys. In F9's case, Airbus did a lot to line up financing, etc., for the deal (hence such a large percentage of the debt belonging to European banks). Boeing doesn't see such an arrangement as profitable.

Now, one could say that this is another way that Airbus inflates orders, but if you're in the position of a smaller carrier, who cares as long as a deal can be done?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32618 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Even when NK gets new aircraft they will likely fly alongside their MD-80's. NK is looking toward expansion here, not necessarily replacement.

No they won't. The plan is to acquire up to sixty new aircraft and totally get rid of the MD80 fleet. However, at the same time, they do plane on getting more second-hand MD80s to cover short term growth, but they won't be with Spirit for long (4-6 years max).



a.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
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Flashmeister:

I agree with all you say about Airbus and the financing. It has been so successful for all parties, in Frontier's case, that the range is now extended beyond European financiers to Asian ones.

Even the Frontier's ATSB backed loan came mostly from a German bank, WestLB, courtesy of an Airbus introduction. Those many millions were paid back fast - just over a year - giving Frontier a superior credit rating with the Euro banks.

The puzzle is that Boeing will arrange financing too, but only for some airlines.

Boeing made Midwest an offer they couldn't refuse to take the 717's. The leases are all financed by Boeing, on very generous terms.

So I wonder why they wouldn't at least try to do something for Spirit?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

I think Boeing's shooting itself in the foot by denying business to airlines- even if they may seem small and pidly to them. Their arch nemesis Airbus is more than happy to sell to F9, B8, HP, etc etc....and I'd assume Spirit too.

Boeing's gonna kill themselves this way. They could have alot of 717 or 738 orders, and Spirit's colors would look AWESOME on one, as opposed to a stupid A320  Big thumbs up

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

As much as I like Boeing, they are going to remain the Worlds #2 Airline manufacturer if they think along those lines. Yeah I know they are doing well with the 737 line, but why not sell 60 more?

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

"Boeing has a history of treating smaller airlines badly."

Really, Mariner? They seemed to be treating AirTran well (large 737 order, the 717's were odered from MD), Ryanair was a small carrier at one time, same with WestJet. Perhaps Spirit just isn't interested in the 737? I'd like to see the 320 family there myself. I like the wider cabin.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

I cannot say who or why but do not look for any 757s or more MD80s but rather I would look for a European plane in large numbers like three digit numbers to be announced in the next 7-12 days

User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4780 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

That has to be the most bizzare press release I have ever seen from Boeing. If they have such an attitude, why even bother making commercial aircraft anymore? I am sure the military business is much more profitable...



User currently offlineAA777MIA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Spirit will get the Airbus... Let's just say I have seen them around... =)

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2971 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

They seemed to be treating AirTran well

Simply put: AirTran is a major player, Spirit is not. They only serve a handful of destinations.

I agree that Boeing should not turn down orders because they aren't profitable enough. Some profit is better than no profit!

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineBlueairbureau From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

In the past Boeing has had to eat orders which were not successfully taken up on some of it's a/c's(737ng's). I don't think they really want a "risk". I think they're are firmly planted on the 7E7 right now. If any one comes to the table asking for a handout I'll understand why they'll decline. Let's not forget most of the planes I fly on were bought with a discounted price from Micky D's right off the production line (but not to Spirit) so Micky D could say they sold something and to move already produced product. Do I like Boeing's attitude towards my company? Hell no. We don't deserve it. This company has good survival instincts. While other airlines were handing out so-called furllows (let's be honest they're really delayed pink slips!). My company was launching there plans for new routes. So we don't get boeing, what's the worst that could happen? We could get a good a/c well suited to the point to point flights my airline likes to fly in comparable comfort. The crew members will get a plane we are proud of. We'll get to fly around in one of the snazziest paint schemes in the sky. My company will make more money. I'll get to keep the shirt on my back. And well...........Boeing can plane eat my shorts! HMMMM.

25 Mariner : TOLtommy: As JetBluefan1 said, the Airtran order is a big order (100 aircraft from memory) and at the time, Airtran was perceived as being the 3rd lar
26 Acvitale : I would hardly call the Spirit order small at 100 units... Additionally, I would not call Spirit small.. They are the largest privately held airline i
27 Ckfred : There is an old saying. Sometimes, the best deal is the one that you don't do. I have heard Phil Condit say that it makes no sense to sell airplanes,
28 Acvitale : CkFred, It would have helped if Boeing had offered to talk to Spirit. The idea that they did NOT want to negotiate with NK bodes poorly.
29 N276AASTT : UH, why isn't Boeing "offering" anything to Spirit? What, is Spirit's money not good enough for them? They shouldn't let what happened with Frontier h
30 Post contains links CPDC10-30 : Since Boeing must answer to individual and institutional investors, rather than goverments, it has to worry about earnings per share and stock perfor
31 Post contains links and images Mariner : Activale: Um - I didn't say "small" - I said "smaller". I think there's a difference. And, as I understand it the order will be for 60 aircraft, not 1
32 Greaser : You people should not jump to conclusions, that news report was not even detailed, something happened between Boeing & Spirit. It's almost certain tha
33 Elwood64151 : Remember that, before the FL 737-700 deal, there was a lot of press saying that Boeing wasn't interested in selling to FL. That largely centered aroun
34 Mariner : Greaser: I'm not suggesting they will go with Airbus because I don't know that they will. They are in talks with Embraer as well. And, as Elwood says,
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