Voodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 1962 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 12078 times:
I think the upper deck slides should be tunnels like at a water park.
I believe I have read that AI wants to be able to allow upper deck passengers to proceed to the lower deck first in some circumstances, hence the extra wide interior stairways.
FA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 11987 times:
oh my gawd! there better be some really strong FA's upstairs because they are literally going to have to toss the passengers down the slide from the upper deck! Those passengers will lock up when they get to the doorway and see that tremendous drop!
I remember in training at UA we had to jump down the 767 slide in a hanger and that was really high! Then we played on a 744 upperdeck gullwing door... If the 380 upper deck is as tall as the 744's... WOW! You are really up there!
scary stuff!
FA4UA
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 11963 times:
Aparently they got a special dispensation from having to do a live evacuation test from the top floor, because they know very well that most of the people comming down that long slide will be hitting the ground so hard that they will break their ankles.
So you have a situation where if the captain orders an evacuation, you can pretty much guarantee that there will be hundreds of minor injuries, and some major ones (dummy sliding down headfirst). Obviously that's better than everybody dying in a fire, but what if the situation is ambiguous? There have been incidents where a plane has landed and is evacuated just in case, even though fire hasn't really broken out yet - but did later. The knowledge that the evacuation itself is dangerous may lead the captain to hesitate at a critical moment.
I wonder if these pychcological scenarios are going to be part of the regular simulator training for A380 captains. But even a simulator might not convey the gravity of the question on the captain's mind.
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 11603 times:
CFalk:
If what you say is correct, I'm a bit worried. The last thing I'd want near a crashlanded plane is lots of passengers with broken ankles - if there is any fire (eg from a leak in the wing), they ought to be able to distance themselves from the site, on their own. Having all the upper deck passengers incapacitated sounds like a really undesirable scenario to me.
And to be honest, looking at how steep that slide is: I'd freeze. I wouldn't even leave my (window) seat on the Upper Deck until everyone else was out, and then I'd either try to get downstairs or look at the drop and panic, freeze and stay inside. There is no way I'd jump down there - pretty much die in the fire instead. I've always had a fear of heights...
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15873 posts, RR: 66 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 11548 times:
Ikarus: Nice try though. The FA's PUSH really hard. No time to freeze. I asked a pilot about evac. He told me that "it hasn't been fast enough if there aren't at least 3-4 broken bones" (this was a 737NG). But better that than burning to death. I am sure if there was a fire you would be crowding the exit. And if not, the FA's, your significant other, or the a.net member in the seat next to you, would throw you out. Better to have control over the fall IMHO.
Although being afraid of heights myself I see your point.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Hkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 11517 times:
Wouldn't it be better to extend the slide a bit at the end so that people will slow down a bit before reaching the end of the slide? Hopefully the real thing is not as bad as this model!
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 11370 times:
Wouldn't it be better to extend the slide a bit at the end so that people will slow down a bit before reaching the end of the slide? Hopefully the real thing is not as bad as this model!
The problem with extending the length of the slides is that the longer it is, the more susceptable to wind it is.
I have some photos at home of a Pan Am 747 which made an emergency landing in San Francisco in the early 70s. The plane was evacuated immediately after touchdown, but most of the slides were immediately rendered unusable due to some fairly strong wind. In the photos you can see most of the slides having flipped up over the wing or even right over the plane.
When I get home tonight I'll try to scan them onto here.
Anyway, either you keep them short, fast and relatively stable, or long, slow, and maybe unusable.
There is a long slide from the top deck of the 747, but the issue was considered relatively minor, as not many people are up there and they could probably simply make it down the stairways and still satisfy the evacuation time requirements.
That funky skylight-escape hatch in the 747 cockpit is really for special occasions - the pilots have the option of getting out through here and sliding down a rope.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 11279 times:
Starlionblue,
That second picture you posted in fact leads to the avionics bay I'm pretty sure (which on a good number of aircraft has an extra door that leads into the cabin)...not the cargo holds.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15873 posts, RR: 66 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 10707 times:
Wingman said:
"If there is any good left in this world the FAA will withdraw certification upon the first real evacuation disaster and we'll get to watch Leahy eat his own shit until he dies of food poisoning. He deserves it."
Safetydude said:
"While I do understand that no one knows for sure, I am wondering what Airbus was/is thinking."
Don't you think they've thought of these things? The regs are immutable, and the FAA and JAA have been involved from the get-go. Airbus is not exactly springing this on them now. I think that when the time for certification comes there won't be any surprises. Do you really think that Airbus would let the entire future of the program ride on an unknown?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
DeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1698 posts, RR: 38 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 10399 times:
There are definitely going to be some injuries caused from the impact of hitting the ground after bouncing your way down off of one of those slides on the upper deck---heck there are even ankle/foot injuries on little aircraft like 737's. I would be a bit concerned. Not only would it be terrifying to some passengers on the upper deck at that height, but if what CFalk says in regards to being able to break your ankle easily (in which it isn't that hard for me to believe that) you have passengers down on the ground with one hell of a lot of fuel in the wings. So lets see...passengers in close proximity to the wing + broken ankles, concussions, getting the wind knocked out of them who else knows what will happen = the equation for catastrophe. The A380 may be a bit too ambitious for it's own good. We'll see how it plays out, but I'd definitely like to see some risk studies done on those upper slides.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Nycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 10313 times:
Is the model to scale? I've seen pics of the actual a380 that is in production and it looks massive but this model in relation to the size of the doors looks like it would not be as big.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 10201 times:
WOW After seeing those upper deck slides I am not so sure that it will make it through FAA certification. The FAA didn't want to give the 747 approval when it came out so Boeing had to give all of their employees shirts with numbers on them then show the FAA what an actual evacuation would look like to prove that everyone could get out safely. I see no reason why they shouldn't do that to the Airbus people. If they are afraid to go down that slide how would they expect a passenger to? I don't think that the FAA will give them any kind of break so I think that Airbus will be changing this real soon!
DeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1698 posts, RR: 38 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 10124 times:
Aerosvit,
Not necessarily. They can continue on with building the aircraft and then maybe modifying the slides later. Like I said above, I'd like to see a risk study done on these slides. Get your everyday average joe who has no deep interest in aviation, pay them $20 (and whatever else to cover any medical bills when they're done) and see how an evacuation would go from that height with those slides at the same angle and other conditions with trained flight attendants assisting them off of a platform. Put the slides through their paces so to speak. From where I sit, they look like an accident waiting to happen. They need some design modifications to help slow your velocity down when you start getting down towards the end of the slide so you don't have as much of a collision with the ground once you get down there.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Plane Holland From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 10022 times:
they should build a cargo side door or 2 at both side, like on a 747 combi. It should then in case of emergency be able to open with sliding possibilities..
plausible or just to expensive? (saving lives is expensive..)
rgds, Plane Holland
25 UAL747DEN: Carpatica What are you talking about? This post is about the slides on the A380 not about Boeing or Airbus and what is better. You shouldn't talk abou
26 TBCITDG: I have just decided that I will not be a primary at doors 4 and 5 or any position upstairs. Way too scary!! On another note: Which doors will be slide
27 RayBolt: This past summer i took part in a testing of a new overwing slide for the B767. For mine, they made everyone wear numbered vests, and videotaped/timed
28 Starlionblue: Hear hear Carpatica! Saying that Airbus risks not fulfilling the evacuation regs is like saying they will end up with a plane that cannot safely perfo
29 GLAGAZ: Airbus are a well established company (understatement) and i am sure that they will have every aspect of building a commercial airliner the size of th
30 DeltaMD11: I don't think that people are refuting the success of the A380 program as a whole, but rather voicing their concerns of such a high and steep evacuati
31 GLAGAZ: I understand that "Delta", I just feel that Airbus will have worked out the risks of the evacuation procedure and will have corrected any mistakes. Sa
32 Carpatica: Starlionblue, I think you're absolutely right. I don't think anyone would go out and make this plane, or any other for that matter, without making sur
33 Rg828: Reminds me of the Air Canada Gimli incident - a lot of people used the rearmost slides to evacuate, and since the tail was way up there the drop was n
34 Jj: What happens if in an emergency, the nose landing gear collapses? Then the slides at the rear doors would become waaaay steeper than they actually are
35 Ants: Thanks for that great photo Ryanair. Goodrich, who are developing these slides, have released a photo of one of the upper deck slide prototypes on the
36 Aa757first: How high is that? I'm guessing 52 feet or so... AAndrew
37 LTBEWR: Forget about the slides problem, what if there is a crash landing on land, what will happen to the airframe? There is an awful amout of weight involve
38 KEno: This new photo looks less scary than the one in the first post. This one looks more like a water theme park while the first post is TOO STEEP.
39 Ants: Well the height from the ground to the upper deck doors of the A380 is approximately 26 feet (7.9 metres). So I assume the height of the slide in the
40 Flyboy80: I wonder how large the cabin doors will be... They look as if they may be larger than the cabin doors on say the Airbus A330/ A340s... With those mass
41 Starlionblue: Jj said: What happens if in an emergency, the nose landing gear collapses? Then the slides at the rear doors would become waaaay steeper than they act
42 Jfernandez: It looks to me like that first top level slide is not as steep as it appears, because you're looking at it edge on. Compare to the ones behind the win
43 Starlionblue: Maybe for the fact that evacuations are extremely unlikely and the view is better from up there? Of course, deplaning might take a while.
44 Jfernandez: Sorry - I meant safety wise. It's hard to imagine exiting being even just as safe - another 12 feet or so can make for a lot more speed on impact, and
45 Cfalk: I would not worry about structural or landing gear collapses on landing. The 747 has made several emergency landings only 2 of the four main gears, an
46 Leskova: I think I just realised why at least I thought that the first slide coming from the upper deck was pretty darn steep: it's not at a right angle to the
47 Petazulu: If you guys look at the first picture, it shows the passenger windows starting quite far from the front of the plane. How come? What will be in front
48 SafetyDude: Safetydude said: "While I do understand that no one knows for sure, I am wondering what Airbus was/is thinking." Don't you think they've thought of th
49 Dutchflyer: "apparently they got a special dispensation from having to do a live evacuation test from the top floor, because they know very well that most of the
50 Crosswind: Firstly, No airliner can carry any more passengers than it has been demonstrated can be evacuated within the 90-second rule, in a real test. So there
51 SafetyDude: Some of that information was interesting, but seemed a bit kind of *out there* in the last few paragraphs, but interesting nonetheless. -Will
52 Starlionblue: Petazulu said: If you guys look at the first picture, it shows the passenger windows starting quite far from the front of the plane. How come? What wi
53 FlyCaledonian: I agree that Airbus will have planned this out carefully, in conjuction with the FAA and JAA. One thing nobody has mentioned is the difference between
54 Starlionblue: In fact, doing a rehearsal or "test" emergency is really hard, because the behavior of the evacuees is different. they once tried to simulate the rush
55 Jj: But if Airbus is resisting to do the test because many people would result injusred, you know there's something wrong. Starlionblue. you previoulsy wr
56 Crosswind: As I quoted: Aircraft comes to rest nose-up, or nose-down: In the latter situation exit heights would vary from 2.7m to 9.5m, and all slides must rema
57 Starlionblue: I see your point Jj, but nobody died or was crippled in the Gimli incident, which leads me to conclude that the slides were properly designed, but ste
58 MD-90: This Airbus demonstrates both the susceptibility to gusts and collapsed gear.
59 Corey07850: Who cares about the slides and how high or steep they are? Bottom line is if you have to choose between sitting in a fiery mass of metal and dying of
60 Dragon-wings: What is the time limit they have to empty a full aircraft? 90 seconds using only half the exits (one side) Will this even be possible with this plane?
61 Starlionblue: Dragon-wings, you have to remember that the A380-800 will be certified at the start for 555 pax, so your 1000 will not be possible in the beginning. T
62 Starlionblue: On a related note, I saw a documentary on the A380-800, and apparently the width of the wing was in large part decided on the distance between the exi
63 SafetyDude: As stated before, I am sure that Airbus have given this some thought. Yes, but, well, your company seems to have a rather close relationship with Airb
64 Intheknow: Dear All To Clarify some points raised in this thread. I have contacts! All upper deck exits have Slide/rafts. You can see the canopy support tubes in
65 FlyCaledonian: I think the picture at the top of this post is misleading. If you follow the link below (You need Adobe Acrobat Reader) and go to page 201 you see an
66 Osteogenesis: This is only speculation but the angle isn’t the only variable witch determines the speed. You could use different materials so that the people donâ
67 Kilavoud: Five years ago I had to evacuate a plane in London (LHR-GVA flight) because an obvious smell of burning swept the whole plane, coming from behind of i
68 Cfalk: Bottom line is if you have to choose between sitting in a fiery mass of metal and dying of smoke inhalation or being burned alive, or sliding down a s
69 Starlionblue: CFalk said: Knowing that an evacuation using the slides might result in an unnusually high number of injuries (if that's the case), would a captain he
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