Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2900 times:
Continental used to claim that it served more international destinations than any other US carrier. Given their large network in the Pacific and their RJ operations in Mexico, plus the 757s they send across the Atlantic, I wouldn't doubt it. However, CO doesn't have the codeshare network that UA has.
ATL2CDG From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 296 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2861 times:
All:
If you read the fine print at the bottom of the advert, it clearly says that it's based upon reported revenue passenger miles over a given period of time. With United flying predominately 777s and 747s internationally, they have more seats floating around and thus more than likely, more passengers.
Slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 37 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2837 times:
Yawn- that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee. Being biggest isn't the point. I remember TWA's Round the World service. Effective? Hardly. Just proved you could do it, but wasn't profitable.
So they have all those RPMs in the market...are they making any money off it? That's the question.
And can anyone explain why UA could start running fire-sales on Atlantic market fares? Now we're all in another race to the bottom in markets that are largely exclusive of law-fare competition.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16256 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2818 times:
"Based on this, with United's ridiculously higr fares and three-class product (which CO and DL don't have), I can easily see UA making more money internationally"
You do know that UAL is insolvent, large International Network and all.
CO and DL do not have access to Heathrow or local Narita rights, yet still are able to remain solvent even with a two-class product.
CO and DL obviously have it right and UAL has it wrong, obviously.
FlyLondon From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 376 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2818 times:
ATL2CDG
Revenue passenger miles (or RPMs) have nothing to do with the fares charged. One RPM is defined as transporting one fare-paying passenger one mile. It doesn't matter whether that passenger paid $100 or $5000. All it is saying is that if you add up the number of passenger miles flown by United internationally, they are the number one US carrier.
Ord From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1370 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
I just threw out last month's Air Transport World, which lists these statistics by airline internationally as a whole and by region (Atlantic, Pacific and Latin America). If I remember correctly, United was a distant #3 in international RPMs, behind AA and DL. But that was for 2003, something like January-September, although I can't imagine United dropped that far in only a few months. When I get the new issue I'll post the stats if this topic is still open.
I know before 9/11 United was clearly #1, but I also know they are not #1 right now - AA is by a wide margin.
UA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2746 times:
Yes, UA was not #1 last year. But--you can thank SARS for much of that.
2004 will see UA reclaiming top spot in intl RPMs with the announced (and yet to be announced) longhaul flights, and resumption of pre-09/11 transpacific capacity.
How can I deduce this? Well RPMs are directly related to ASMs by load factor. If you look at the LF trends, then look at the ASMs AA, UA, and DL will be offering throughout the year, United will have more ASMs and has lately tended to have a higher load factor.
1 RPM = 1 Revenue paying pax (irrespective of class of service) flown 1 mile
1 ASM = 1 seat flown 1 mile (irrespective of class of service)
Total RPMs/Total ASMs = Load Factor
-equivalent to-
Load Factor * Total ASMs = Total RPMs
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2746 times:
It is ALL about how you look at the numbers, for example, if you include Continental Express and Micronesia brands, CO has the most international destinations. So yes, a 35-seat RJ flight 3x weekly to some international manufacturing outpost in Mexico counts.
KKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2661 times:
As we can all see, being "American's Largest International Carrier" hasn't helped United's bottom line any. They're still bankrupt, and still bleeding cash. Route structure isn't changing that.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5975 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
The most current numbers list Jan-Aug 2003 for International Travel (RPK's)
RPK's are generally used as the measurement to compare airlines
1. American----38,010,537
2. United-------34,417,522
3. Northwest---29,663,614
4. Delta--------22,176,036
5. Continental--22,156,768
6. US Airways--10,106,625
By Passengers
1. American
2. Continental
3. United
4. Northwest
5. Delta
6. US Airways
By Freight
1. Fedex
2. UPS
3. Northwest
4. American
5. United
6. Delta
7. Continental
8. US Airways
Mattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 384 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2490 times:
You can't really base comparisons on last year's figures, and UA is not doing that either. They are basing that on their CURRENT schedule. Just one ORD-HKG flt in a 747 equals 15 MIA-Jamaica flts in a 737, yet both are international, so it's easy to see how UA, with its RPM-heavy trans-Pacific flts, can hold the title of most intl RPMs.
American, on the other hand, has a huge number of shorter Latin American/Caribbean flts. While this does not give them many RPMs, it gives them a lot of intl passengers, and the title of biggest US international carrier, passenger-wise.
Ord From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1370 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2346 times:
"You can't really base comparisons on last year's figures, and UA is not doing that either. They are basing that on their CURRENT schedule."
This is wrong. If you read the small type in the "ad" you see United is basing their claim on data from October 1, 2002 - September 30, 2003.
"American, on the other hand, has a huge number of shorter Latin American/Caribbean flts. While this does not give them many RPMs, it gives them a lot of intl passengers, and the title of biggest US international carrier, passenger-wise."
This is also wrong. American is number one internationally at the moment in both passengers and RPMs. Check Bobnwa's post above.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12559 posts, RR: 64 Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2214 times:
(Taken from "Air Transport World," January 2004)
U.S. Major Carriers International Traffic:
Airline Passengers Carried (000)
AA Total 8,613
Atlantic 2,138
Latin 6,203
Pacific 267
CO Total 4,480
Atlantic 1,519
Latin 2,791
Pacific 173
UA Total 3,872
Atlantic 1,622
Latin 610
Pacific 1,635
NW Total 3,814
Atlantic 1,372
Latin N.M.
Pacific 2,437
DL Total 3,504
Atlantic 1,988
Latin 1,436
Pacific 74
US Total 2,178
Atlantic 974
Latin 1,201
Pacific N.M.
AS Total 703
Atlantic N.M.
Latin 703
Pacific N.M.
TZ Total 381
Atlantic 381
Latin N.M.
Pacific N.M.
HP Total 360
Atlantic N.M.
Latin 360
Pacific N.M.
N.M. = not meaningful or no operations whatsoever
So, UA may be largest in terms of RPMs, but as others have mentioned, it's because they're flying much larger equipment over longer distances. Both AA and CO surpass UA in categories such as number of international destinations, passengers carried, etc.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12559 posts, RR: 64 Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2139 times:
Mattnrsa-
They are basing that on their CURRENT schedule.
Again, no they're not.
If you read the fine print, you'll see it says "Based on Revenue Passenger Miles as reported to the D.O.T. for the period October 1, 2002 to September 30, 2003."
It has nothing to do with their current schedule.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Mattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 384 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2039 times:
OK...my bad. I guess using the rolling 12-month period starting in Oct 2002 gives them enough of a non-SARS schedule to reflect their huge number of intl RPMs. With all the new and reinstated intl flying coming online this year (most of them RPM-rich trans-Pacific flts), they should be able to use any 12-month period they want.
ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
In terms of destinations served by its own aircraft, Continental is the largest US international carrier.
Cospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1874 times:
Right on EWR...
Destinations served.....The most Continental...DPS, TLV, MNL, OSL, MAJ, GUM..CTS..These are the far off places people think about for an "international" carrier..not ORD-LHR 10x per Day...
AznCsa4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 671 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1837 times:
Yes, United Airlines is the largest International Carrier. Meaning they have more international flights. With destination to Canada, South America, Mexico, Europe and Asia. This does not include Code-share and STAR ALLIANCE flights. For one thing UA have more flights to Asia with a hub in AA), Japan">NRT.
American Airlines is the world largest airlines in term of A/C, but not in routes operated by AA.
I am not sure about Continental Airlines having more international routes. For one thing they have a much smaller fleet than of UA, AA, DL, and NW. Unless they including Continental MicroAsia, and Copa.
Cospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1775 times:
Just Continental/ Express/ AirMike/ not Copa or Codeshare...Most Cities Served, not the most PAX Miles..No Doubt BA,UA,AA Are bigger just saying CO serves more cities than any other US Carrier..???? Or Just from EWR ???
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2673 posts, RR: 11 Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
DL is clearly the smallest international carrier of the Big Five in the U.S., the other four of course being AA, UA, CO, NW. Clearly, UA and CO serve the most cities internationally of all the U.S. carriers. AA may be the third largest, followed by NW, and DL. DL has such a small presence in Asia, only one daily ATL-AA), Japan">NRT, right? AA serves Japan from three cities, and UA from at least four or five. The two biggest presences in Asia are probably UA and NW...for the U.S. carriers. Continental would be third, followed by AA, and then followed by Delta...assuming U.S. Airways doesn't serve Asia, that of which I am clueless. In Europe, it is hard for me to begin to fathom which presence measures up to which. UA, AA, CO, and DL clearly are the four largest presences of the U.S. carriers in Europe, and NW is obviously the smallest...besides AMS, they are not nearly as great as UA, AA, DL, or CO at FRA. I guess from this reasoning, it is really hard for me to say which is the largest international carrier. Are we talking about things in terms of how global they are, flight frequencies? The only thing we can conclude is that these five giants are all valuable assets to us, and five enormous carriers such as that for just one country are an advantage that the U.S. should cherish, as we get a lot of choices on which airline we can fly to a certain city. To see even one of these airlines go would be a tragedy. May all five live on for eternity!
Fly one thing; Fly it well
25 Slider: Kudos to UA's marketing wonks for twisting untimely stats! Hey, if it puts a couple bucks in the pot and makes you sleep at night, more power to you.
26 Greg: I think the fact thier primary lenders (and those of US) are now looking at how many pennies on the dollar they will receive when they dissolve assets
27 Ual777contrail: Slider, You think AA is structurally sound? You may want to rethink that little theory. Both AA and UA have played teeter totter with the world bigges
28 Mikeymike: Trans-Atlantic Destinations Served (one way flights) DL-21 Destinations served from 3 US Gateways - 40 daily flights CO-19 Destinations served from 3
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