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Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?  
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

So with Alitalia publically stating intent to order the 7E7, do you think they'll be the first airline to order?


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNetdhaka From Bangladesh, joined Feb 2004, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Few weeks ago I was hearing that LH would be the launch customer and now Alitalia. Has anybody placed any order for 7e7 yet?

User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Alitalia will probably have 10 new B773 soon and some B7E7, but it will be not the airline that will make the order, but the Financial Holding 'Sviluppo Italia' that it should then lease at AZ those planes according to some 'good' sources Smile

User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Alitalia has also publicly stated that it will be profitable...still waiting for that one, too.

User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

Alitalia has also publicly stated that it will be profitable...still waiting for that one, too.

True, and what about LH? Anyway probably you didn't follow the last news in AZ..


User currently offlineJean leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

No thin wrong with writing a bit of Italian, but please provide a translation for we ignorant non-italian speakers, please. Otherwise you are breaking the rules. Can't have secret conversations starting up!


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Jean.

My bad!

Translation:

I hope Alitalia buys the new 773 and 7E7...

-G



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4745 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

The new CEO of AZ and the FCO Govt said that AZ will be looking to add 10 B 773ERs and 10 B 7E7s over a period of time and restart flights to prospective destinations with a bright future such as LAX-CHINA-CENTRAL AMERICA etc and increase frequencies on high demand-high yielding routes.

I think that AZ will order the BASIC B 7E7 version as it will ultimately be replacing their entire B 767 fleet by 2010 I guess??? Plus the price tag for launch customers for the B 7E7 program is going to be around $ 100 million per airplane compared to the $ 125 million official price tag I bet!!! So its a dam good deal-investment to make!!!


User currently offlineAlitalia7e7 From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

It looks as if the Italian Government is looking at the 777 and 7e7 options as per this article - AGI Online.

ALITALIA: NEW INDUSTRIAL PLAN SETS SIGHTS ON MORE HAULS
(AGI) – Rome, Italy, Mar. 3 – Boosting long haul, increased domestic flight quotas – through trading with other operators – renegotiating route repartitions with Air France toward Italy: these were the guidelines concerning Alitalia’s industrial plan. According to anonymous sources the company is looking into low impact negotiated solutions: solidarity contracts, subsidised layoffs and golden handshakes. With regards to boosting fleet numbers Alitalia is looking at buying 10 long haul wide bodies: either Boeing’s 777 or the super efficient 7E7 "Dreamliner” which has fuel requirements 20 pct lower than its competitors. With regards to increasing domestic quotas Alitalia appears to have shifted emphasis from Meridiana or similar small airlines to the acquiring domestic flight seats on other airlines. The decision appears preferable to other forms of commercial agreement such as "code sharing". A “buying seats” arrangements increases Alitalia’s offer increases feedering and diverts domestic passengers onto its international flights. In order to not lose its share in the feedering market Alitalia may opt to renegotiate its agreements with Air France concerning flight between Italy and France. Negotiations would focus on handing Alitalia a majority share of the hub to hub market, with France in charge of short hauls between small Italian airports and France. Alitalia risks losing out, with such an arrangement, on intercontinental flights.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

LH has made their disinterest clear.

...with the sidestick challenge being Boeing's only out.

N


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

I think this is easy.....Emirates.
Right size, right time....and they capture more headlines.
With ONLY $22 Billion of aircraft on backlog...they can order all they want.
They will long be out of business before the first 7e7 gets delivered.
The only mystery will be 'who' will get their delivery slots.


User currently offlinePaxromana From Italy, joined Mar 2004, 36 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

Please....any drawings, virtual photo and so on about 7E7!!!
Grateful!!!


User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

try this

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/photos.html


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16975 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Gigneil said:
...with the sidestick challenge being Boeing's only out.



Depends on the size of the order. If it's 50+, MAYBE Boeing will build a sidestick version. LH is a prestigious carrier to have as launch customer.

This can be compared to the 767's with a flight engineer's station. I think it was Air NZ. Anyway it was a union requirement and Boeing complied.





"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Depends on the size of the order. If it's 50+, MAYBE Boeing will build a sidestick version. LH is a prestigious carrier to have as launch customer.
-----

That all depends. Gordon Bethune said that Boeing should politely refuse to make as many custom modifications to airplanes as it has in the past. The resulting commonality would keep resale values up and manufacturing costs down. Maybe the relatively low announced price means Boeing is following Bethune's advice, and is intending to save costs by offering fewer variations on the basic design.



User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

I think that my thread "The new Industrial Plan of Alitalia" can help the discussion.

User currently offlineBluethunder From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Greg:

Emirates going out of Business - dream on. You obviously have no clue as to how popular that airline is. Over ambitious may be, but bankrupt - No way.
Emirates is tied to the growth of Dubai and i cant think of a place that is growing as fast as Dubai.

And yeah i do agree with you - they might want to be a launch customer just to grab head lines.


User currently offlineOmShanti From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

What is the actual size difference between the 7E7 and a 747. Is it actually bigger and longer? Does it hold more passangers?

THanks

Omshanti


User currently offlineAOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1302 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Wow ! a 7E7 would rock in the Alitalia colors !


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © AAA Clement Guivarc h



User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6069 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Just a technical side note... no one will be able to order a 7E7 until the engine suppliers have been selected. So, wait until after Boeing has selected who will be allowed to hang their engines under the wing before you hear a first order.

By the way, Boeing has said that they would like the engines from the selected manufacturers to be interchangeable in order to help increase the residual value of the 7E7.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

What is the actual size difference between the 7E7 and a 747. Is it actually bigger and longer? Does it hold more passangers?

The gap is quite large, the 7E7 is only a 757/767, A300/A310, and A330 replacement. When the 7E7 joins Boeing's wide-body lineup, the 7E7 will be the baby with the 747 being the largest and the 777 between them.

The 7E7 will most likely be offered in two lengths, but three versions. The Base will provide a replacement for 767s and A300s, the Short Range will replace A310s and 757s, and the Stretch will compete with the A330 and probably open new markets that haven't been tapped-

(aircraft)(passengers)(length)(range)
  • Base 7E7- 200 pax in 3 class; 182 ft; 7,800nm

  • Short Range 7E7- 300 pax in 1 class; 182 ft; 3,500nm

  • Stretch 7E7- 250 pax in 3 class; 202 ft; 8,300nm


  • Since you asked about the 747, here's a comparison-
    (aircraft)(passengers)(length)(range)
  • 747-400ER- 416 pax in 3 class; 231 ft; 7,670nm

  • 777-300ER- 365 pax in 3 class; 242 ft; 7,705nm

  • 777-200ER- 301 pax in 3 class; 209 ft; 7,730nm


  • Hope that helps, if you would like to compare these numbers to Airbus aircraft this should be useful- http://www.airbus.com I can't wait for this plane!

    ~ R y a n


    User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

    Lufthansa may not have the luxury of refusing an aircraft it very much needs (to replace the AB6's), one which the side-sticking competition is not yet matching! I think they're trying to throw their weight around, but they need this kind of plane as much as Boeing needs to sell it to them. I see them lining up along with SIA as launchers.


    It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
    User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
    Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

    I think Boeing will play ball with Lufthansa.

    Boeing has been stressing interchangeability of the 7E7 almost from day one. Nearly all 7E7 variants will be available within a 2 year window of EOS, so launch customers don't get screwed with the beta version. Boeing announced this week that they want engine manufactures to use a common engine pylon, allowing engines to be swapped easily. Boeing is cutting the options available to an airline to stress uniformity. And... Boeing has let it slip "we are working on a neat little side stick of our own."

    That last one can only be targeted at Lufthansa. What Boeing means by a "neat little side stick" I have no idea, but it won't be a me-too of the Airbus stick. If anything it's probably a side stick with tactile feedback, and in going with Boeing's philosophy for the 7E7, can probably be changed out for a yoke at any time. But like I said, that's just my best guess.

    I think we will see launch customers before Farnborough, which isn't far off


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