Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4136 posts, RR: 38 Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4482 times:
Rumour is, that Lufthansa is currently heavily interested in replacing the Avro RJ85s with Fokker F100s. In addition they are seen as one potential - if not the launch customer - for the Fokker F70/100NG (pending launch, however this attempt looks quite serious), as these aircraft would mostly fit their RJ requirements.
Condor/Thomas Cook is apparently in the market and is looking for B737/757 and/or A320/321 for this summer season.
CPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4761 posts, RR: 25 Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
Wow, all the sudden F-100s are hot stuff. First JetsGo, then Austrian, now Lufty? Unless they have specific reasons for the RJ-85 (short field performance) that can't be met by the F-100, it does make a hell of a lot of sense. I guess airlines are only becoming interested now with AA removing them from their fleet.
Beechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 44 Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
Ah, never heard that rumour. Interesting.
Nice to see something else going on instead of the other: we´ll get Embraer, 717, 318 or CRJ 900 rumours.
Personally i don´t think this is going to happen.
I mean i´d like to see the Avros and the old CRJ100 go, but this won´t happen for a while as some people in management said.
Anyway, how did you hear of this, Flying-Tiger?
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1897 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
as I mentioned in earlier posts on the return of the Fokker 70/100, the project is in a very advanced state. Expect the official "go" around mid 2004, or maybe at Farnbourough.
Lufthansa was a potential buyer when the Fokker 70/100 were still in production, so who knows, maybe Rekkof will get them a good deal. It would be a good start for the new series of Fokkers, such a big name as Lufthansa as launch customer!
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4136 posts, RR: 38 Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
Obviously I cannot name my source/sources - as usual.
Don´t forget that the original decision at Lufthansa was between the ARJ85 and the Fokker F70 - LH had choosen the F70 from the Pax´s comfort point, however BAE Systems came with a much better deal financially which made it more attractive for LH to go with the ARJs. That´s at least the version I know.
IMO the F70/100NG only have a chance if they get a major facelifting in form of winglets (i.e. the Sharklets which were designed for the 928JET), new engines (I guess the BR710/715 would be the most likely contenders as they are RR products) and a whole cabine update.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4136 posts, RR: 38 Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3345 times:
I somewhat doubt that the EMBs will be the choosen ones in this contest. LH is not too fond about them as far as I can hear, and the only version which will be crtified for LCY will be the EMB170, even though only with some modifications, adding 400kg to the OEW. Not the best selling point on rather short European hops.
In addition the Embraers don´t have a really large cargo space to offer, the Fokkers are a bit better, which might be a selling point as Lufthansa Cargo is still one of the largest Cargo carriers in the World, and is currently trying to regain some market share, especially in and ex Germany/Europe (the current B747-400F rumours for LH Cargo point into this direction as well). Belly-capacity could be important in this case.
I really doubt that we will see one Star order - OS has effectively dropped out of the tender as they have decided in favour of the Fokker F70/100 and Dash 8-Q400 for their 70/100-seat needs, and LH will go CRJ700 and F100 for their requirement IMO. Spanair will be somewhere in the middle, I would guess mostly Fokker F100. At a later stage all "old" F70/100 would be replaced with brand-new Fokker F70/100NG. IMO quite a likely szenario, especially as most delivery slots for the Embraers have been booked in the coming years.
Greg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3133 times:
I thought there delay until Q4 was mostly due to seeing if the FD728 was going ahead. It appears it will be a Chinese/German/Korean effort--with the money coming from China..the Tax breaks from German...and the major subcontracting to both China and Korea.
I realize much still needs to be done.
I think Berlin will be an interesting place in May!
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5540 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3048 times:
Honestly, if Boeing can't sell 717s, and the 318 isn't exactly popular, either... what makes Fokker think they can move 100NGs? The operating costs can't be as low as the E190 or CRJ900 or whatever else...
So what gives?
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4136 posts, RR: 38 Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
@ Keesje: I can only say so much that I have this from sources quite close to this subject. Sorry, can´t go into more details here. Don´t expect anything offical from LH - officially the competition is still between the CRJ700/900, Embraers, B717 and the A318, even though the FD728/928 are reviewed since some time, and the Fokkers which have come into this just recently.
@ Greg: This is what I was thinking before I heard this about the Fokkers. However, waiting until 4Q04 has now three advantages:
- to see what is going to happen with the FD728/928
- to see what is going to happen with the F70/100NG restart
- to see the "real" performance of the Embraer 170
In addition you could add that especially Boeing should get quite desperate in its trys to sell the B717 which might be an additionally lowered price. But as you say, both Berlin and Farnborough will be highly interesting this year, and Lufthansa will be one of the centralplayers.
@AA737-823: Fokker has something neither Boeing nor Embraer have - a customer base which is alread flying this type since many years - plus carriers which in the past had these types in the fleet and might reconsider a new version.
Besides the price tag for the Fokkers will be quite a bit lower as the development costs which have to be regained will be way lower than those of the B717 and the Embraer family. Means that they can undercut Airbus, Boeing and Embraer nearly all of the time if necessary. Besides they offer a growth plattform with the Fokker F100 and a shrink plattform with the Fokker F70, at least the Fokker F130 as a 130-seater had already been planned and was only shelvedbecause of DASA´s particiation in Fokker and the higher anticipated sales volumes of the A319.