AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
I didn't see anything else on this in my search here so I'll sum up the article in the March 2-8/'04 issue; if it's been posted in another thread, my apologies.
Boeing indicated at Asian Aerospace that the list of the baseline 7E7 will bee close to the $115.5 - $127.5 million range of the 767-300ER, based on 2002 dollars, surprising many observers who expected the maker to charge a premium for the new model. It also noted that the list of the larger A330-200, against which the 7E7 Stretch would compete, is $139.6 - $145.5 million based on 2003 dollars. The intent, according to 7E7 program director of marketing, Tom Waggener, is to offer the 7E7 with all of its' extra capabilities, at a similar price to the 767 and admits that airlines also expected a higher price. The article also mentions that Star Alliance member airlines are to work together to define a common 7E7 specification, marking the first time the group has discussed standardization of a mainline aircraft. Star chief exec. Jan Albrecht said:"At the Star board meeting (this week) in Tokyo, we will firm up more interest and get the core group of airlines." This core group is expected to comprise three or four airlines and likely members include Singapore Airlines and All Nippon Airways, according to the article. In addition to previously published technical details, the article also quotes Airbus CEO John Leahy as being "about as concerned about the 7E7 as I was about the Sonic Cruiser".
Well, good move for Boeing because relatively high pricing compared to competing Airbus models helped get them into their current sales quandry, as illustrated by the 777-300ER/200LR's relatively poor sales compared to the A340-600/500. And kudos to John Leahy for saying exactly what he's supposed to say though I suspect it's not what he actually believes. The 7E7 and the Sonic Cruiser are an apples and oranges comparison with the SC at best, being a relatively niche market airplane while the 7E7 is clearly a mass-market airplane
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1662 times:
I'm only stating what I've read both here and elsewhere and yes; it might've been more fair to note that the 777X models were launched later. However, in the last year, they've done poorly against the A340NGs in a number of campaigns, as has been pointed out in here. I believe this has been due mainly by Boeing being unable to match Airbus discounts, never even mind the list pricing which never applies anyway and not to the 777X itself, which I believe from what I've read, to be superior in certain ways (no offence, Airbus supporters, that doesn't mean I don't think the A340NG isn't also great). Someone here recently detailed the convoluted Iberia campaign which Boeing might well have taken by giving in a bit more and the Emirates one might also have gone better for them; Emirates loves the 777 but complained about Boeing pricing. I do think, now that the 773ER certification is done and Boeing has impletmented the MTOW and performance increases in both models, 777X sales prospects will improve and it should regain momentum against the A340NG. I'm still holding out hope that Virgin will order some -300ERs instead of more A346s, Branson did say he was seriously looking at it. Still, Boeing can't afford to be too firm on its' pricing; Airbus is all too willing to undercut them in any deal, anywhere. With the 7E7, they're getting off on the right foot with the list; hope they're willing to discount a bit, too, if necessary. ConcordeBoy, don't take my comments as a slap against the 777, per se; I love it too.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1539 times:
they've done poorly against the A340NGs in a number of campaigns
Name some. Iberia and..........?
To cut it short, the much older A346 only pulled ahead of the 773ER by EK's order... and the only merit of the A345 is its headstart; notice it's only managed to secure a single new customer since the 772LR (which did the same) was launched?
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2673 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1442 times:
The 773ER is also in just the beginnings of its passenger service. It is too early for you to reach the conclusion that the Boeing 773ER is performing poorly against the A346. In short, don't underestimate the 773ER and the 772LR. The 773ER and the 772LR have had less time to build up orders than the two previous Airbus models...because they are newer. I suspect that the 773ER and the 772LR will become very decent competitors to the Airbus models. To add a comment, I think Continental is likely to order the -772LR to operate the EWR-HKG route. It certainly would be better than the -772ER on that route. Anyway, getting back to the topic. ConcordeBoy is right...the orders between the 773ER and the Airbus A346 are not highly different, and the -772LR certainly has managed to provide some inhibition to the Airbus A345.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1312 times:
Thanks AKelley728 for that link, I'm amazed I missed that thread last week. My apologies for 'dated' info. ConcordeBoy and Thrust, I merely based my comments on posts I've read in here, often from Airbus boosters, and occasionally in magazines like FI, admittedly those opinions may be slanted. I'm sure the 777X has the ability to catch the A340NG if Boeing doesn't stay too price cocky with it. As you've pointed out, it's done pretty well DESPITE its' higher price, meaning that many carriers have been willing to pay more for what they consider to be a better airplane. Nevertheless, I maintain that if the price disparity is too great, Airbus will still prevail even if the A340NG isn't quite as good. Emirates warning that Boeing must do something in that area can't be taken lightly. I agree Boeing can't sell 777Xs below cost, either, so some process to reduce production costs, maybe somewhat emulating what they're doing with the 7E7, must be done to ensure they remain competitive.
Gaut, in the matter of state subsidies, Boeing's realized what's good for the goose is good for the gander and if you can't beat 'em (Airbus), join 'em.