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A380 Hype  
User currently offlineDutchflyer From Netherlands, joined Feb 2004, 169 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

How can some off you praise the A380. It's still not in the air. Parts are being assembled but the total picture is still on the drawing board.

Swimming pool, tennis court, bars, nightclubs all of these things can be on board of an A380. Yeah right, seats will fill up the plane, 100, 1000 who knows how many they can fit in.

MTOW, power, speed, range. We all don't know. We have to believe Airbus for these figures. But can we trust Airbus. I doubt it, every salesperson will say his product can do the job when in fact it can't.

The B747 is real, she flies, she's real, she breathes.

A380 has still to prove it can fly. Time will tell.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3589 times:
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Can we be sure you would have said the same things about the 747 when that was first proposed? QR and EK have already formulated the capacities for their aircraft (with EK doing their usual "trick" of having high and low densities)

David


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

"But can we trust Airbus."

In this day and age with such high technology and computers etc I don't see how you can't trust them. With the sheer amount of money involved, their figures won't be wrong or else their company would be ruined.


User currently offlineDutchflyer From Netherlands, joined Feb 2004, 169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

"Can we be sure you would have said the same things about the 747 when that was first proposed?"

No, at that time I was to young to type/speak english  Smile


User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

Dutchflyer,
While I agree that there is a lot of hype about the A380, I don't see why people can't be excited! And I agree with an above posters comments about computers.

A lot of people said that the 747 would NEVER fly when it was proposed, the when it was on the drawing board, and on it's first flight people were doubtful that it would ever get off the ground, but look at how many 747's there are in the skies today.



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineIluv727s From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

One of two things will occur when the A380 is built... 1) Airbus will dominate the market, or 2) It will be the biggest flop in aviation history and Airbus will be an industry of the past.


A lack of planning on your behalf does not create an emergency on my behalf.
User currently offlineKlm-md11 From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 471 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

What's up with you, "Dutchjet" ? So far the only thing you've been able to contribute to a.net is negativity...

This site is not a aviation-complain-site!



GELUK IS GELUL MET EEN K
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1214 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

With computer design the predictions of how the plane will behave is much more exact than when the 747 was designed. That is one reason why you can believe strongly in Airbus when it comes to the A380.

I personally think the A380 will be a fantastic plane. Even though the 747-400 is still a good plane it is fast becoming a plane of the past and will be overtaken by the technical achievements incorporated in the A380 design.

Perhaps I regret that Boeing has done nothing to continue developing the 747 in the last couple of years or that they spent too much time on that Sonic cruiser...



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineND From Belgium, joined Feb 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Yeah Dutchflyer, weren't you the one who posted the thread about how Emirates is all hype as well? What's up with you and hype? Go look in a dictionary for the definition, then come back here and post it. Once that is done, post all the threads in this board that fulfill the definition of "hype"...


ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
User currently offline9V-SPF From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

It will be a HUGE new airliner, so what´s wrong with a "hype" ?  Nuts

Daniel


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2517 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Hi Dutchflyer,
I'm not sure why you are trying to stir things up here. IMHO you are throwing in your opinions without really backing them up. However I like these discussions if they are based on facts or thoughts, so I'll jump on the bandwagon here . . .


A380 hype?
Hype? Yes! That's what they pay their sales department for. And Leahy is doing a good job on it . . .


How can some off you praise the A380. It's still not in the air. Parts are being assembled but the total picture is still on the drawing board
So we should refrain from praising aircraft until they have proven themselves in airline services. Sure is going to be quiet and boring on these forums . . .
Like people will praise Boeing for SC and now 7E7, like praising EMB for their new 170-195 range, people are keen to see new and bold product launches. Launching new airliners is an extremely rare thing these days, launching a new airliner that is bigger than the world has ever seen before will attract lots of attention [at least on these forums anyway!].


MTOW, power, speed, range. We all don't know. We have to believe Airbus for these figures. But can we trust Airbus. I doubt it, every salesperson will say his product can do the job when in fact it can't
You don't trust anybody but yourself. But apparently these untrusty Airbus figures were good enough to sell 120 airframes [with another 100 orso options] each valued at 150-240 million US Dollar [depending on discount volume]. Don't think reputable airlines of the likes of LH, AF, SQ [not to mention the EK-hype] would be investing billions of Dollars if they did not receive some sort of guarantee on these untrusty figures . . . you can rest assured that at stage of development their figures are accurate to within 1-2%.


The B747 is real, she flies, she's real, she breathes
Like it's been doing for 35 years now. Time to get retired and replaced with something more modern. [Pls no flamebait - not saying the 747 should be retired, just playing devil's advocate and showing the other side of the coin in this arguement . . .]. The DC-3 should never have been replaced.


Swimming pool, tennis court, bars, nightclubs all of these things can be on board of an A380. Yeah right, seats will fill up the plane, 100, 1000 who knows how many they can fit in
You know what . . . this is my favourite arguement. Many people [like yourself] don't realize that they just came up with a very strong sales-reason for the A380: Airbus has designed a plane whith "swimming pools, tennis courts, bars, nightclubs etc" that has better economics than current platforms. Take-out these features and replace them with even more seats and economics of this plane will be mind blowing! ["small' detail, is Airbus going to certify for more than 555 pax . . . ?].
That's also why EK has ordered so many of them. Most of them are going to be loaded with seats. EK doesn't need so many frequencies on their hub-orientated operation. One A380 will carry close the load of two 772's over on the same route. On some very long 15hrs+ routes they will throw in some specials for their premium customers [no tennis courts unfortunately]. You can count on it that these specials can not be matched by any other platform without destroying economics. So the A380 will be able to bring them two very distinct business opportunities: very-high capacity cattle class transport, and premium transport with unmatched space and specials.


The main question off course will be: how important are frequencies going to be on long haul markets. This will drive the market split between 747NG/A380 and 340/777/7E7 over next decades. The hype that Airbus is creating with the A380 is to try steer the market towards the hub-orientated operation. Boeing is doing the opposite hype with the 7E7. Reality will be somewhere in between.


I think that we can agree on at least one thing in your post: Time will tell . . . .

Kind Regards,
PW100

Edited for spelling




[Edited 2004-03-07 12:19:18]


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineStefanDotDe From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Dutchflyer: that's true, let it fly and then we'll see. Same is for people who are bashing the 380. Let it fly  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineEconoBoy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Iluv727s

…Airbus will be an industry of the past.

Airbus has not put all its eggs in one basket on the A380, but has spread the risk via ‘Risk and Revenue Sharing’ partnerships, and neither are these partnerships entirely European as US firms like Sundstrand and Goodrich have won major contracts (Goodrich for the main landing gear, which must be quite a challenge in itself).

Meantime, does anybody know the route to be taken by the wings between manufacture and assembly? I heard something like they will have to be transported by sea.


User currently offlineBoeing777/747 From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Frankly speaking the A380 will become a bit like an "ugly duck" but very efficient.

User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

I was under the impression that they are having special barges built to go up rivers to have the wings delivered. I also thought that the wings were to be shipped by boat overseas as well.

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9906 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

As far as I can remember, the A380's wings will be transported by sea from the BAE factory to the French Coast (don't know where exactly). China developed and delivered this boat to Airbus. From there the wings will be transported by road to the factory in Toulouse for where all major aircraft components (wing, engines, fuselage, horizontal & vertical stabilisor) will be joined. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if anyone has more detailed information on the production of the A380.

Regards A388  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

When is the first A380 due to be rolled out and flown?

User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Rjpieces, the first A380 is already under construction. I have seen actual shots of the first pieces of the A380! The cockpit and the nose look ugly, but friggin monstrous! Frankly, I don't see why Airbus chose the cockpit to be on the first floor instead of the second? Was it because the 747 cockpit being on the upper deck posed complications for the pilots? The A380 at least might look better if the cockpit was placed on the upper deck. But I have no doubt the A380 will fly. Rjpieces, from what I have heard, the first A380 will be rolled out by 2006-2008. It is not far at all from its first flight, especially since orders have already been placed for it, at least I think it's been ordered.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

The A380 wings will be transported by barge down the River Dee from the Airbus UK site at Broughton in North Wales. They will make their way to another dock where they will be transferred to another ocean-going ship for transport to France. They will again be transferred to another barge for river travel, and then I believe they will complete their journey by road.

The A380's cockpit is actually between the 2 floor levels as this gives the cleanest aerodynamic profile (allegedly). Another reason was to not have the flight crew so far from the ground for taxiing purposes. But, it does mean the A380-F will not have the ability for nose-in loading that is possible with the 747-F.



7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Can we be sure you would have said the same things about the 747 when that was first proposed? QR and EK have already formulated the capacities for their aircraft (with EK doing their usual "trick" of having high and low densities)

And indeed people did. There were many who believed it would never fly, some of them within Boeing.

They were proven wrong, this time...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1638 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Swimming pool, tennis court, bars, nightclubs all of these things can be on board of an A380. Yeah right, seats will fill up the plane

I agree with Dutchflyer and PW100 on this point. Sure, VS and some other airlines will most likely put small bars and certain other amenities on their aircraft, but from an economic point of view, there's no point in using half the lower deck of the A380 for a mall or "duty-free shops." The airlines want to use the extra space for more paying passengers. Plus, some of these ideas mentioned are really wacky. Yeah, right; who's gonna waste thousands of pounds of payload weight for a swimming pool? Yeah sure Oh well, it's just part of the hype that the aircraft companies and airlines are using to glamorize the A380 in the face of the general public.

It looks to be a stunning (yet ugly) aircraft that deserves a certain level of hype, indeed, but some people are goin' off the deep end with these ideas.

Cheers!
-N243NW  Big thumbs up



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Frankly, I don't see why Airbus chose the cockpit to be on the first floor instead of the second?

The cockpit isn't at the first floor either if you ask me. Looking to this pic below and the drawn pics tells me that the flight deck is somewhere between the first and second floor.



I have to say the drawn pics of the A380 gives an ugly impression of the machine. Well, not really ugly. I would say less beautiful than the 747. But I'd like to review that opinion when the beast is flying and we will see it with our own eyes.

Freak




I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineSandiaman From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

There's an article dedicated to the A380 in this week's Aviation Week and Space Technology:

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/03084top.xml


User currently offlineWilco From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

I just saw the 380 fuselage pics for the first time... perhaps you all have seen them already. Sorry, I had to post one... they just made my jaw drop:
Regards,
Wilco




"Ever seen a grown man naked?"
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

Well, at least an American didn't start this thread, we don't need that dimension added to an anti-A380 thread, as well. Let's give the big guy a chance here, jeez the first one isn't even built, yet. Aside from being slightly over target weight, an issue the engineers are moving at full speed to resolve, the program is proceding swimmingly, on time and on budget. It shows every chance of being a success at this point, so let's not here any more negatives before the aircraft has had a chance to prove itself. Incidentally, AW&ST also has a special program resource section devoted to the A380 on its' website.

http://www.aviationnow.com/awin/prototype/page1.jsp


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6494 posts, RR: 54
Reply 25, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

Are we in fact aware how close this thing is to reality?

It was launched almost three and a half years ago, and at that time a lot of fundamental design work had already been done.

It will fly in just over one year from now. Two and a half years from now and thousands of people have paid for a flight on it.

I have friends who were working on its design. They have long time ago moved on to the A400M, an equally challenging plane.

We think it is being designed? Not so! It's finished. Prototypes are being built, production facilities and infrastructures are being built, and test- and certification program is being prepared.

Just 365 more sunsets, and you may have experienced the shadow of an A380.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
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