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2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class  
User currently offlineToBEYwithMEA From Lebanon, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

I was flying Emirates Business class on a A330 and I thought that it would be a 2-2-2 clas lay-out.
Well, it was 2-3-2 class lasy-out and there were 7 passengers on borad.
I was stuck in the middle of the 3. there were a lot of other seats in the business class cabin (By the way This flight was from Paris and there was no first class) but the hostess said I could not move.
SO I was stuck beteew these two gentlemen with colds. I don't want go in to details but the postion I was in was not business class style.

On the other hand MEA my home carrier, my favorite airline Have 2-2-2 (on A330) configureation in Cedar Class (Cedar Class is a cross of business class seats and First class service, but it beats any airline's first class).

What airlines have 2-3-2 business class and what airlines have 2-2-2 business class. And caN you mention so features?


MEA FLYING HIGH AND RETURING TO IT FORMER GLORY!
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

I think 2-3-2 business class is highly unconventional. Actually on Singapore Air's A345 Leadership COACH CLASS is 2-3-2 (a nice touch). Emirates' 2+3+2 business class and their unusually narrow coach class seats have come under sharp criticism on this site in the past, and I think this will continue until Emirates realizes that in order to be a world-class airline, you need to have a world-class product.

Another bad business class apparently is DL's 2+2+2 767 business class... I've walked through the BusinessElite cabin on those aircraft and the seat pitch looked generous, but I can understand why BizElite class travellers would prefer a wider seat on an aircraft where the standard Y class config is 2+3+2...

-WGW2707


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

MEA has the 2-2-2 because it is a super-world-class carrier!!

BA for example has 2-4-2 !!!!!!!!! in Club world across the 747 and 777, with those silly flat beds.

United also has the 2-3-2 across the 777s, as far as A330/A340's, SAS has 2-2-2 and so do Cyprus Airways, Swiss, NWA, Lufthansa, Austrian, Air Canada, SN and I think also Gulf Air, maybe AF as well.

I think Qantas business class is also 2-3-2...

I suppose we should be glad Emirates doesn't do it 2-4-2 across C Class in the A330s, since they do 3-4-3 in the 777 economy!!! How overhyped and overrated Big grin




PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

You know AirxLiban, it's nice you have pride in MEA and I'm very proud that you are, but it get's tiring a bit when you over do it. We know that MEA is a great airline, but when you start to bash other airlines, it becomes rude/immature and sometimes sounds obnoxious. But anyway, calm down and keep it easy. Big grin

I myself prefer 2-2-2, and I pity cattle class. Hey, I earned it though, right?!



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2121 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

(Cedar Class is a cross of business class seats and First class service, but it beats any airline's first class)"

I am sure many would agree that Cedar Class doesn't even compare to the new Emirates First Class which can be found on the A340-500.

"Emirates' 2+3+2 business class and their unusually narrow coach class seats have come under sharp criticism on this site in the past, and I think this will continue until Emirates realizes that in order to be a world-class airline, you need to have a world-class product."

LOT Polish Airlines, with one of the worst looking business class cabins in the skies, have a 2-2-2 layout, however they are not a "world-class airline" by a longshot.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Edit: Typo



[Edited 2004-03-07 06:57:11]


You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

think Qantas business class is also 2-3-2...

QF uses 7 abreast in J class in Domestic config on their A330s with Millenium seats.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Milligan



When they are converted to international, they will be 6 abreast only with the new QF sleeper seats.


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Kalakaua,

I'm glad that you got the tone of my previous post. Just having a bit of fun  Smile but of course no disrespect was meant to any other airline that i mentioned with the exception of emirates. Now, I haven't flown on EK so I will reserve judgment on the intangibles, but I really quesiton their 2-3-2 C class in the A330 and their economy 3-4-3 777's. Fair enough that the 777 isn't that much narrower than the 747, but most other airlines still go 9 abreast with their T7s. I suppose that Emirates knows that they can get away with it. If it has anything to do with capacity, hopefully the arrival of the 40 some odd A380s will help them reduce the capacities of their other aircraft.

LOT Polish Airlines, with one of the worst looking business class cabins in the skies, have a 2-2-2 layout, however they are not a "world-class airline" by a longshot.

What were you expecting, 2-3-2 business class in their 767s? If they ran 7 abreast in C Class, there would be no one in it seeing as how Economy is 2-3-2!

In any event, I wouldn't go so far as to call LOT's Business Class ugly...the design on the seats is just a little bit too busy...

edit to add that last portion about LOT seat design.

[Edited 2004-03-07 07:16:40]


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

I think that the 2-2-2 config. is a lot better. Though I don't seem to mind the 2-3-2 in UA's 744. The only issue that I have with the UA business seats are I can never seem to figure out what button to press out of the 3 to make the foot rest go back down. Oh well. I especially like the window side on the UA744 b/c it offers a lot of room to stick stuff in.


/ / / U N I T E D 4 E V E R

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineAZ From Italy, joined Jul 2003, 82 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Alitalia has 2+2+2 on 777, TG 2+2+2 on 333 AF 2+2+2 on 333 and 2+3+2 on 777

bye.
Daniele


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4438 times:


Egyptair have a 2+2+2, Horus (Business) Class configuration on both their B777s (which have been upgraded recently from 2+3+2) and A340s.



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2122 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

AF has 2-3-2 on its 777s and 744s.

I have flown in the middle of the middle on the 777 once and was actually quite comfortable. I had no problems sitting there ... although I cannot image as a full paying business class passenger being stuck in that seat, I wouldn't be too happy. Save 'em for the upgrades lol.




Bonjour Chef!
User currently onlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 791 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

American has 2-3-2 business class. I have never been stuck in the middle. I think on their 767's it was 2-1-2.

Mat


User currently offlineAA777223ER From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

AA's Business class is 2-3-2 on 777, and 2-2-2 on 767-300ER (all 2 class configuration, no first), the 767-200ER still has 3 classes, First 2-1-2, Business 2-2-2, Coach 2-3-2, primarily used on transcons now. For the record, passengers generally don't like the middle business seat unless they are traveling with one of the seatmates.


time flies, seize the day
User currently offlineMarcopolo747 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 460 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4216 times:


777s, 747s, MD-11s have in general a 2x3x2 configuration in Business Class and worse....... 2x5x2 in Economy. I was amazed to read that AZ has a 2x2x2 configuration in their 777s ! Any other airlines are that generous ?

A340s and 330s are all fitted with 2x2x2 configuration in Business and 2x4x2 in economy, here Emirates is rather an exception then the rule.

And yes !!!!! That middle seat is martyrdom !


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

BA for example has 2-4-2 !!!!!!!!! in Club world across the 747 and 777, with those silly flat beds.

What a stupid comment. Why are BA's flat beds silly? I flew in Club World and I found it extremly comfortable, I really asked myself why BA also has a First Class, their Business Class already offers very comfortable seats (only disadvantage: they are a little bit narrow) and top service.

Patrick


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

What a stupid comment. Why are BA's flat beds silly?

1) If you are over 1.75 it is not long enough
2) They are narrower than the Cradle Seat and narrower than the Club World of the generation before (the first Club world introduced on the 744s, I believe...whatever they were using in 1992).
3) If you are facing backwards, your head is higher than your feet at full recline
4) Vicky versa if you are facing forwards
5) The actual seat itself is hard
6) 2-4-2 across a 777 or 747 gives one the impression of being in a very crowded cabin.

that said, it still beats economy.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

1) If you are over 1.75 it is not long enough

I am 1,90 and it was long enough for me.

2) They are narrower than the Cradle Seat and narrower than the Club World of the generation before (the first Club world introduced on the 744s, I believe...whatever they were using in 1992).

I already mentioned that the seats are a bit narrow, but they are still comfortable and they offer privacy, a very important aspect in my opinion.

3) If you are facing backwards, your head is higher than your feet at full recline

Are you serious? You complain about that your head is higher than your feet at full recline, but you also wrote (in reply no. 2) that MEA's Business Class is the best? MEA's Business Class comes not even close to BA's, I say that although I never flew on MEA, only a visual comparison let me come to my opinion.

4) Vicky versa if you are facing forwards

See above.

5) The actual seat itself is hard

I will not say it is hard, but I also do not say that it is soft, It is very comfortable in my opinion, just perfect.

6) 2-4-2 across a 777 or 747 gives one the impression of being in a very crowded cabin.

Absolutely not, every seat has a dividing wall, it makes you feel like you are sitting in your own private lounge, privacy is a very important aspect when you are flying long haul (at least for me), BA's solution is perfect in my opinion.

Anyway, have fun while flying onMEA, your "super-world-class carrier"  Laugh out loud.

Patrick




User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

EmiratesA345 & Sabena332,

You cannot compare BA's flatbeds and EK's business in its A345s with MEA's Cedar Class.

BA's flatbeds are only found on long-haul flights and EK uses its A345s exclusively on its ultra-long range routes.

MEA's A321s and A330s are in a medium-haul configuration and as a result the Cedar Class is not flatbeds.

Compare the same size fish with another same sized fish. Not a bigger fish.

It's been confirmed, when MEA opens up Brazil, they will have flatbeds in Cedar Class. THEN you can go and compare them with BA's flatbeds and EK's amazing A345 interior.

AirxLiban,

Please quit the bashing of other airlines. Yes, MEA is a great airline, but as Kalakaua said, leave the bias out and admire MEA without having to bash other airlines.

I am Lebanese like you and love MEA as much as you do, but do not bash other airlines because of it...........

It's been getting out of hand......



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBenjamin From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

I think that there seems to be some misunderstandings here.

Standard practice for biz class varies among different planes! The A34x planes are NOT as wide as a B77x or B74x! You can't compare them!

Standard practice for international biz class is 2x2x2 for a A34x and 2x3x2 for a B77x or a B74x (on the lower deck).

The group here has referred to numerous examples of 2x2x2 on a 77x such as on Alitalia or Continental. The reason for this is that these carriers have no first class so their biz class is supposed to be a cross between biz and first. Alitalia calls it Magnifica Class; Continental calls is Business First; Delta calls is Business Elite. I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

I hope this clears this up for everyone!!

Benjamin


User currently offlineTR763 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 772 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Varig has a 2-3-2 in their 777s, and TAM uses the 2-2-2 configuration in their A332:
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Photo © Paulo Rudolf Herren
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Photo © Don Boyd




Transbrasil
User currently offlineBenjamin From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4002 times:

Varig has a 2-3-2 in their 777s, and TAM uses the 2-2-2 configuration in their A332

This furthers my point.


User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

BA's solution is perfect in my opinion

I guess this is what matters in the end, one's personal opinion. My points 1 and 3-6 are somowhat subjective. You like it, I don't, plenty of people agree with you but there are others like me who mourn the loss of the Cradle seat. Lets go and draw a Venn diagram!!

What has to be said is that regardless of how much one likes or dislikes the new club world flat beds, BA was still a pioneer of the 180 degree business class seat.

but you also wrote (in reply no. 2) that MEA's Business Class is the best?

I didn't say that. I just claimed that MEA is a super world class carrier and apparently my intended sarcastic tone was not carrier over. MEA has only two features better than BA (in my opinion anyway, humble or not):

1) Seats are more plush
2) Seats are wider

That is about it. For everything else, BA has MEA beat, but needless to say they were never meant for comparison. My liking of MEA is based on the intangibles.

Please quit the bashing of other airlines

We know that MEA is a great airline, but when you start to bash other airlines, it becomes rude/immature and sometimes sounds obnoxious

I can take a hint. But what really is bashing anyway? Questioning the appeal of 2-3-2 C Class across an A330 when most other airlines do it 2-2-2? Exhibiting some dislike for a business class of another airline?

In any event, I'll take it easy on the MEA glorification.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

Swiss: First Class 1-2-1 Business 2-2-2 Economy 2-4-2 for example.

If we extend this discussion to non Airbus widebodies, the same can be said about American's 767-200s.

Anyway, I'm beginning to forget what the point of this thread was due to getting side tracked with other issues, but I'm still wondering why EK goes 2-3-2 in the A330s when there is NO first class.

is it that they can get away with it or is it that they the capacity, or do they prefer to offer more legroom than shoulder room, or is it something else?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineBenjamin From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3944 times:

Swiss: First Class 1-2-1 Business 2-2-2 Economy 2-4-2 for example.

If we extend this discussion to non Airbus widebodies, the same can be said about American's 767-200s.


Both of your points are mis-stated.

In terms of Swiss, they provide that seating on A340s and A330s. That exactly furthers my point. As I said above, 2x2x2 in biz is standard on these planes.

In terms of American's 762s, you should have read my post more closely. I said INTERNATIONAL(!) biz class. AA flies the 762s are flown DOMESTICALLY on transcons!!



User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

so you are saying that qualifying aircraft would be 747 or 777 or D10, M11 or whatever then?

[Edited 2004-03-08 03:03:55]


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
25 SR 103 : The orginal question is, why does EK have 2-3-2 for its business class on an Airbus when most other carries flying these planes for long haul have a 2
26 ToBEYwithMEA : Air Liban has made a good point many times. This is not bashing But who in their right mind puts 10 people arcross a 777, I understand a 747 but a 777
27 Stefandotde : lol@AirxLiban - ok, Mr. Super World Class Carrier. By the way: your signature is great! I love QF's 767-300 configuration in Busi-class, which is 1-2-
28 Benjamin : Air Liban has made a good point many times. This is not bashing But who in their right mind puts 10 people accross a 777, I understand a 747 but a 777
29 ToBEYwithMEA : Ummm, okay but Benjamin I was talking about Eco.
30 Benjamin : Good point! f i l l e r
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