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The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic  
User currently offlineToBEYwithMEA From Lebanon, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3351 times:

Why don't Aircraft makerake a A318 that can fly across the atlantic. The 747 has long range and fits a lot of people. All long range aircraft are fit to handle a lot or people. But lets say I want to open a non-stop flight across the lake but the rote will only bring about 90 paxs.


MEA FLYING HIGH AND RETURING TO IT FORMER GLORY!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

I don't think it would be very cost effective to use such a small a/c for pond jumping. Someone would be doing it from smaller centers if it were.


"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 675 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

It's simple math. The bigger the airplane, the more fuel it can carry and the longer distance it can fly. The 318 will not carry enough fuel to allow a non-stop flight across the Atlantic. There are some pretty involved financial formulas that help determine the size of an aircraft that will make money for an airline. They include figuring the distance, the amount of people who want to travel between the places the airline wants to service, how much can those people afford, how much the airplane costs, how much it cost to fuel and maintain the aircraft, the crew, etc. I am sure that if there was a economic justification for designing a 90 passenger trans-Atlantic aircraft, someone would have done it already. The only 90 passenger aircraft that has made that flight in recent years was the Concorde. Its cost could not be supported any more.

Beyond all of that, there is the comfort factor. People have become used to flying big airplanes long distances. I would not want to spend 6+ hours in a regional jet, and I doubt there are many people who would.


User currently offlineToBEYwithMEA From Lebanon, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

You make a valid piont Wannabe



MEA FLYING HIGH AND RETURING TO IT FORMER GLORY!
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12041 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2939 times:
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Well, I know it's not an A318, but there are already people operating all business class B737s and A319s across the pond. Range is not a problem for aircraft like this fitted with a low density (but high-yield) configuration.


Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offline747400F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

People have become used to flying big airplanes long distances. I would not want to spend 6+ hours in a regional jet, and I doubt there are many people who would.

hmmm I guess that's why there is such a large amount of biz-jets crossing the Atlantic and other Ponds every day.!


User currently offlineND From Belgium, joined Feb 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

I tend to think Biz-jets to be *slightly* more luxurious than flying a commerical regional jet, so I wouldn't mind flying one of those across the Atlantic.

Someone mentioned that people are used to travelling on larger planes. That is very true, and some also feel uncomfortable travelling across the Pond with anything less than 3 engines.



ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

That's the point, Jumbofreighter and ND - high quality in a smaller jet is much more comfortable than being imprisoned in a big tube with hundreds of other people.
Also a smaler plane needs less fuel and there is plenty of room for the fuel a 318 needs.


User currently offlineLHSebi From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 1049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

Privatair flies A320s and 737s from DUS to Newark daily I believe...non-stop.

Sebastian



I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Right@Sebi. And so I think the 318 is able to do that too. Question is if there is a market.

User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Well even if the 318 cannot cross the atl the 319lr (4500nm) can and its only 20 eco seats larger. Air France will be using it for services to middle east with a high % business class arrangement. The only problem with flying a small plane long haul, is that the extra fuel needed to go a further 1000 miles has to be carried 3500nm first and this will obviously weigh a lot compared to the overall plane weight and increase the burn rate of the initial fuel. I'm not sure how significant this is but it must eventually get to a point were you are putting lots of fuel in but it is having very little effect on the range. This does however mean that F E is poorer than usual, which is why putting fewer people (to keep cabin weight down) and charging them more money makes sense.

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

and there is always the 757... which does exactly what you said... allows airlines to fly to smaller cities such as CLE-LGW


TWA902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

AF have A318 that flies down to Africa from CDG, guess its oilworkers......or someting like that!!
Not sure though if its 318 or 319!!!
Cheers dudes

Michael//SE  Big thumbs up



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

LCY-JFK (revenue per day)
100 x US$8,000 x 4 = Concord (but no longer possible)
40 x US$4,000 x 3 = EMB170
60 x US$3,000 x 3 = A319

This allows for extra space and dedicated 'full frills' service. Any accountants want to fill in the gaps?


User currently offlineScottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2050 times:

The A318 doesn't have the range to go transatlantic (without a westbound fuel stop) unless you're talking about something like SNN-YHZ. The "A319" which PrivatAir uses is an A319LR (predecessor of the ACJ, if I'm not mistaken) with extra fuel capacity, and, as others have said, it's configured as all-business class to help keep the weight down. Same for the "737" they operate, which is really a BBJ (-700 with the strengthened -800 wing and extra fuel tanks).

The problem with operating these all-business-class transatlantic flights is that they can easily steal premium traffic from the operator's existing widebody services unless used on niche routes which would not otherwise be operated. And in general, these flights need corporate contracts with guaranteed seat purchases to generate reliable profits.

Not only are bizjets more luxurious for transatlantic travel, they also offer the high-end passenger the ability to avoid most of the inconveniences associated with international travel -- no 60/90-minute check-in, no security screening lines, no boarding lounge filled with 400 people including crying babies, separate immigration/customs facilities on arrival, no connections required, etc.


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