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NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US  
User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Why hasn't jetblue started services to Houston and Dallas from NYC. The market is huge on those routes and is dominated by the cartel carriers we all love. I want to go to Houston around April 20th and a round trip direct flight clost well over $1000 dollars. Some fares are in the $1800 range! WTF? This trip is over 4 weeks away. The cheapest option is Air Tran via Atlanta as well as a couple of inbetween options on the other majors.

Continental and American absolutely rake you over the coals on these routes and it is unacceptable. JetBlue could fill several flights daily to and from these cities. So could Airtran and others. What is taking so long? This is why people develop a serious axe to grind with the majors. They complain about LCC's, yet charge outrageous fares on any route that the LCC's do not fly.

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this? Pleas Jetblue- come and help us. This is a huge potential market. Think of it as ATA for the NYC Chicago run. Those guys have done wonders for us all.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

When I look, I do not see the elevated fares you suggest

J


User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

Leaving NYC (any airport) on April 20th, returning NYC (any airport) on April 23rd. Any time of day on a direct flight. Cheapest fare is over $1900. What do you see?

User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

IMHO, the best that they would do is one daily flight.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3363 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I just found rt leaving 4/20 out of LGA for $300.
It sounds like you just want us to think the major's are charging alot.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

B6 could probably do very well on these routes. The O&D is tremendous, and there is little current low-fare competition.

***

Funny, however, I found EWR-IAH around 4/20 for $273 on US (connecting in CLT or PIT), while FL is $338.



670


User currently offlineTrey From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 250 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

AA from JFK via DFW for 392

User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Why don't you keep Jetblue to your self. We are doing fine with Delta, Continental, American (both HQs in Texas) and Southwest.

-COTXDFW777AA




Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

I refer to direct routes. The market is huge and can support many many direct (nonstop) routes. Why should it cost $1900 to fly non-stop between 2 of the 3 largest cities in the USA? There is not reason I should have to connect through Pittsburgh, Dallas, Atlanta, etc to fly this routing. I can understand a premium for direct service- but a $1500 + dollar premium! 4 weeks out? That's insane and demonstrative of the problem with the major carriers IMHO.

User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Seems like the problem with the majors carriers, is the Lccs. IMHO




Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

I think we've already answered your question in one of the last posts- JFK-DFW for $392.
So what are you complaining about? That even lincludes MRTC, something you won't find on JetBlue's latter half of the cabin. (See www.seatguru.com for details).
R


User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Trey- you are right about JFK- Dallas. That was my fault. Still- if you want to fly through LGA Direct its $1000. Quite high in my experience. Lets focus on Houston then- what gives?

I am not trying to be antagonizing here. I am not married to the LCC idea at all. Any airline that can come in and charge less than that would be acceptable- how about $600? seems more reasonable to me.

[Edited 2004-03-11 01:00:39]

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

Petazulu-a lack of a Saturday stay hurts your case also...I am flying LGA-IAH on 4/22 (returning 4/26), and would be paying $325 through ORD if I wasn't on a free ticket (on United)...I do that route all the time, and Houston is the highest-fare major city from New York City in the United States...NYC-Houston is BEGGING for Southwest or jetBlue service...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJFKviaPHX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

541.40 from EWR to HOU on CO. This is the lowest price direct I found. I get 313 form JFk to DFW but 1600+ for LGA to DFW. That is crazy.

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

It's simple.
JetBlue to MSY then WN to HOU...same for the return.

I have a friend who is an independent contractor that does it monthly for less than $400 rt.


User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Petzalu, exactly where were u getting ur fare information? There is no way it can cost $1900 for an economy class ticket from NYC-Houston/Dallas unless of course your flying first class.


Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3203 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

continental.com from 4/20-4/25 is rt out of LGA-IAH $313. That is pretty cheap. You should take that up.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

You guys are forgetting key element: the dates Petazulu has inserted have no Saturday night stay. That is key -- the fares are assuming he's a business traveler.

If he comes back on Sunday the 25th instead of Friday the 23rd, then he could get a ticket for $271 on AA, non-stop LGA-DFW.

As far as the JetBlue situation is concerned, they are still very small. So far, they have focused primarily on leisure destinations. As far as the Texas-NYC market is concerned, the business travelers who frequent this route are, for the most part, fiercely loyal to AA and CO. They like the non-stops, they like AAdvantage and OnePass, and they like the possibility of being upgraded. Plus, the New York market is one of the most lucrative in the country. I'd never pay these fares, but the frequent flyers on these routes don't either -- their employer (investment bank, oil company, etc). pay them.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France?
The major carriers have pretty much matched them on fares on virtually all routes.
I say keep the jobs here in this country.!



747SP
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 960 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

American would trounce JetBlue at DFW. The only other way into the metroplex is DAL, and the Wright Amendment takes care of that. JetBlue didn't fare too well against Delta at ATL, mega-hubs are tough shells to crack.

Besides, most people in Dallas have not even heard of JetBlue and the DFW-JFK market is well served by AA.


User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

I appreciate all of your responses. I am not a ra ra Jetblue champion, however the LCC's have show that the Saturday night stay requirement is probably the majors undoing and may have given rise to the SW's, Air Tran's, etc. I looked for these fares on Expedia.com

My trip is for business. I work for a small company- we don't pay 1900 in any situation. I am sure there are others just like me who would gladly take up an alternative direct flight. Doesn't the price desparity between $1900 and $248 seem unreasonably harsh? I can see a walkup- or short notice fare this high- but over one month away? That just makes me ANGRY. It's like the dark ages - if I was Jetblue- I'd look that up and start my service next week offering $400 dollar roundtrips and $600 walkup fares on 3 roundtrips per day. They have quite a little following in the biggest city in the US.

Sure, CO would hack at their fares- but the Jetblue gig would be able to fill a few planes per day just off of people who prefer TV's or JFK.

It's happenned to NYC-LA area markets. All of you naysayers pointed to the same reasons- fiercely loyal FF'ers (not $1000 loyal), more frequency, etc.
Jetblue, SW, ATA, America West have all shown that it can be done. I say attack Texas! Do the same thing!

JFKviaPHX,
Where did you find that flight? I'll book it tomorrow!


User currently offlineJfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

First of all, you guys are raking the gut who started this thread over coals for no reason. He is absolutely right!

Forget fares, how about schedule?
If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?! Is it right that the nation's largest int'l gateway and largest airport in the nation's largest city would have one flight a day to Houston?!?!
And why is this? Because CO wants me to use their hub in Newark. It is a nice hub indeed, but it's wrong to screw people like that. Especially considering the population of Queens, Brooklyn, and Long Island, which uses JFK.

Then let's look at DFW from JFK.
Two flights a day on an MD 80. And lets not forget the stellar RJ service blessed on JFK from Delta. Is that right??
How dare Delta? Who the hell are they to make a nonstop flight from NYC to DFW on an RJ! That flight was flown with L1011s in the days of Pan Am. Do you think for a second that there is only demand for an RJ between JFK and DFW once a day?

As for you guys who say u don't need a LCC in Texas--that's great. But guess what, we love our JetBlue here in NY. That's how they became the largest carrier at New York's largest airport in 4 years.
When they do start the service--which we all know they will--you can rest assured that both DL and AA will put some 757s on the route.
And as for my beloved CO, I am sure they will do better than one flight a day in that horrendous aircraft Boeing calls a 737!

That's why B6 is making money and CO, DL, and AA are fighting for their lives.


User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

That's why B6 is making money and CO...are fighting for their lives

CO isn't exactly fighting for their life. CO is the healthiest and strong financially of the network carriers, and reported profits twice in 2003.

And lets not forget the stellar RJ service blessed on JFK from Delta

If DL's mainline flights filled up, there wouldn't be the RJ problem. Obviously the flights weren't going out with satisfactory loads.

That flight was flown with L1011s in the days of Pan Am

Yeah, and look where Pan Am is now.


670


User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2971 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France?
The major carriers have pretty much matched them on fares on virtually all routes.
I say keep the jobs here in this country.!


So employing 5,000 Americans means nothing to you?

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Jfklganyc
Hold up ....."That's why B6 is making money and CO, DL, and AA are fighting for their lives." Umm Continental is not "fighting" for there lives by any means, and neither is Delta.

"I am sure they will do better than one flight a day in that horrendous aircraft Boeing calls a 737!"
Horrendous!? Harsh words for the number one selling aircraft family of all time.

"How dare Delta? Who the hell are they to make a nonstop flight from NYC to DFW on an RJ!"
Who the hell are you to demand a larger aircraft! Research and you will see they fly a 757 to LGA at least once a day.

"As for you guys who say u don't need a LCC in Texas--that's great."
It is called Southwest and if you don't know it is based at DAL.

"If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?!"
Why fly any bigger aircraft when you fly 777s to an airport that serves the same area.

-COTXDFW777AA




Texas- it's like a whole different country!
25 Warren747sp : Yes, except that most of them are low-paying service jobs. Machinist jobs in the manufacturing sector is worth much more !
26 Coronado : I too work for a small business (my own) and when I have to fly NWA to SAN I can get a good fare if I fly out on a Saturday and come back on Wed there
27 Ssides : Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France? What are you talking about ?!?
28 Jfklganyc : I know WN is based in Texas. I was referring to the guy who said that "we don't need B6 in Texas." I am also very well aware of DL's LGA flight schedu
29 VC745d : unacceptable Why should it cost $1900 to fly non-stop between 2 of the 3 largest cities in the USA? There is no reason I should have to connect throug
30 DfwRevolution : I do slightly resent JetBlue ordering Airbus, but mainly because they laid a smack down on the 737NG when they placed the order. I don't have the quot
31 STT757 : "If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?! Is it right that the nati
32 Petazulu : I don't think anyone has the right to demand a certain airfare- however I do have the right to get pissed off or outraged at a $1900 RT fair 4 weeks i
33 Big777jet : It's from a friend. A friend and I agree on the following: Sorry to burst your bubble Jfklganyc But what is CO and AA as "fighting for their lives" re
34 Klwright69 : OK, people keep talking about CO's lone flight from IAH-JFK. I have said it before, but I guess it didn't get through. It is going to twice daily (exc
35 Ssides : Right now airlines like AA and CO charge the $1900 fare because they can. They need these huge fares to offset their super-low fares. A recent article
36 Amwest25 : If the fare is 1900 its apparent the market can support that and if its does you pay it. Airlines are a bussiness to make money and if a market can su
37 Jfklganyc : I guess a loss of a couple of hundred million is doing good, huh? I love how you guys split ridiculous hairs. No matter how you slice it or what you c
38 Eastbay : Well put, jfklganyc. If you appreciate reasonable fares and frequent service, support your LCC. If underservice and high fares are what interests you,
39 737-990 : Just priced on Sabre: EWR/LGA/JFK-IAH on Continental non-stop 20Apr-23Apr: $1,974.20 total with tax You have no Saturday night stay over, that's why i
40 Ssides : Also remember something -- JetBlue is doing well because they have sweetheart deals on their aircraft payments (which will balloon in a few years) and
41 Petazulu : 737-990, Continental has a stranglehold of this important market. I could waste my weekend and pay less- but I don't want to. I will end up flying thr
42 Richierich : $1900 rt anywhere in the USA is pretty unreasonable, Saturday night or not. I am positive all N. American LCCs don't have anything that expensive for
43 FLYGUY1 : DFW, ORD, and IAH are just like the FLA scenario. If B6 ever started a good amount of nonstops to them from JFK, they would get busy with new flgihts
44 UA744KSFO : "I say attack Texas!" Hmmmmmm, you could read this in more ways than one! The place is a complete DUMP, so it really isn't worth attacking in the mili
45 DfwRevolution : My point is that a fare of $1900 is usery and outrageous given that some airlines can profitably charge a fare of 300-600 dollars for a connecting fl
46 Petazulu : Dfwrevolution, I refer to NYC-Houston April 20-23rd. Dallas is less expensive. I am sorry if I caused confusion. The $1900 fare is a REAL fare and the
47 Milemaster : "I say attack Texas!" Hmmmmmm, you could read this in more ways than one! The place is a complete DUMP, so it really isn't worth attacking in the mili
48 737-990 : Petazulu, I total agree with your anger at the $1,900.00 fare, it is outrageous. I'm all for fare simplification and getting rid of the Saturday night
49 DfwRevolution : I refer to NYC-Houston April 20-23rd. Dallas is less expensive. I am sorry if I caused confusion. The $1900 fare is a REAL fare and the cheapest direc
50 Skaggs : I am flying DFW-LGA this Sat on AA Flt#760 and back on Monday Night Flight #791. I picked my exact flight times on AA.com March 3 and got the round tr
51 737-990 : Skaggs, Remember you get the discount because you have a Saturday night. If you would have left Sunday returning Monday on the same exact flights your
52 Petazulu : I think we should start a new topic on most expensive direct flight fares in the USA. Sounds like NYC-Houston and NYC-Dallas certainly rank up there!
53 Amwest25 : $1,974.20 CO1238 IAH 10:00 a.m. JFK 2:37 p.m. 735 0 Tue., Apr. 20, 2004 3 hr 37 mn on-time: 90% 1,417/150% CO1439 JFK 4:25 p.m. IAH 7:13 p.m. 735 0 Fr
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