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Delta On The Verge Of Bankruptcy  
User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 15
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10627 times:

From a source within the company, it is rumoured that Delta Airlines is on the verge of bankruptcy. Delta currently has a debt of over 8 billion dollars. They will need major restructuring at the executive level.

The bankruptcy can be expected within the next 3 to 4 months. In my honest opinion, I would like to see this happen simply because Delta will be a much better airline as a result. No one likes to lose their job, however the airline needs to do this in order to survive.

Any thoughts/comments on this?


MEA321
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

Name "1" U.S. Airline that has been better off filing for bankruptcy other than CO ?

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineUnited4everDEN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10527 times:

I would say the higher ticket prices that I see, the less seat pitch, no IFE has driven them into this state. I think it is bad for them to be transitioning to RJ's, I personally don't like the way the windows are positioned and the cramped feeling on flights 1+ hrs.

User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10465 times:

I would say the higher ticket prices that I see, the less seat pitch, no IFE has driven them into this state. I think it is bad for them to be transitioning to RJ's, I personally don't like the way the windows are positioned and the cramped feeling on flights 1+ hrs.

I definetely agree with your comments. Delta needs more IFE as well as better seat pitch. I try to avoid 757's on flights 2 of more hours long due to the pitch. I dont like the RJ's either, unless they are used on short routes like ATL-CLT, DFW-AUS, CVG-CLE ect. Hopefully Delta will get things straightened out soon!

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineAmwest25 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

"Name "1" U.S. Airline that has been better off filing for bankruptcy other than CO ?"

America West, they were in Chapter 11 from 91 to around 94 and without the reorganization of that chapter 11 filing they would not be here today.


User currently offlineTcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

First, and I am not discrediting the source, just the possibility that it may not be completely accurate, we have seen this type of thread many times before.

Now, with the disclaimer out of the way, I don't like to see anyone file bankruptcy, however Delta has been unsuccessful, thus far, in renegotiating its pilot contract. Their pilots are among (possibly THE) highest paid among US airlines, and bankruptcy would give the airline a greater ability to handle that (I believe?). It has been reported in newspapers around the country (do a search...should find something from about six months ago) that Delta is not in a good financial situation, so there is a good likelihood that this is not far from the truth. Personally, after flying Delta several times, I have chosen to fly CO instead...better customer service, more mainline jets, and a newer fleet.

Just my .02

Mike S. in AUS


User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Y'all know that CO is the best major airline there is.


Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineAmwest25 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10343 times:

"Y'all know that CO is the best major airline there is. "

Not in my opinion they are not. I have never found anything but CO employees to be rude and un helpful.


User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 682 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10265 times:

DL's debt is over 20 BILLION dollars..........if it were around 8 million it would be a whole different story. DL is famous for smoke and mirrors with it's employee group. The big thing they are trying to promote now(ie-what we keep hearing about at work) is that they funded their pension for 2004. The thing that isn't being said is that they borrowed to do it..........something in the neighborhood of 340 million..........which comes due to 3 different lenders around 2015. Another thing that gets under peoples skin is that after gutting all non-pilot pensions the last 2 yrs(most of the company), the last thing most people want to hear about is pre-funding a years pension account. The next couple of months will be difficult...........especially if fuel prices continue to soar.
S



CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

Delta should unload their MD-80/90's and older 737's. Convert all 737-800's to coach with 35" pitch, reduce Business Elite pitch to 50" from 60" to get some more seats, and convert all coach seats on the 757/767/777 fleet to 35" pitch.

Also, order the 7E7 to replace the 757/767/777 fleet. ASAP!

Two aircraft 737-800 (High density short haul/Normal density medium haul) and 7E7 (High density medium haul and long haul). Real simple. Supplement with RJs.

[Edited 2004-03-12 07:23:37]

User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10122 times:

My opinion is probably worth amount as much as your "inside" sources, nothing.

If there was truly a person within Delta that was in a positon to know this information, they would be risking jail time by releasing it. Just ask Martha  Smile

Cheers


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10100 times:

Delta should unload their MD-80/90's and older 737's.

Convert all 737-800's to coach with 35" pitch, reduce Business Elite pitch to 50" from 60" to get some more seats,

and convert all coach seats on the 757/767/777 fleet to 35" pitch.

Also, order the 7E7 to replace the 757/767/777 fleet. ASAP!


Well they surely would not survive that...


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2554 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10083 times:

No inside source is very reliable these days in ATL. Right now the best indicator is the stock price. Many have said the price has to drop below $2 before Chapt 11 is an option. At the current $8-10 range there is too much inverstor equity at stake. If they took the company into Chapt 11 the BOD would be hunted down by the shareholders. Also if it happens it would most likely happen after the summer season. The third quarter numbers had better be good.

User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

If there was truly a person within Delta that was in a positon to know this information, they would be risking jail time by releasing it. Just ask Martha

Sorry China, not only is that statement false, but there is no comparison between the two situations. Delta's Board of Directors is obligated to its shareholders to paint an accurate picture of the financial situaton of the company. Chapter 11 has already been publicly discussed by the company as a possibility and will no doubt happen if DL ALPA refuses to negociate a contract that brings pilot compensation in line with the industry norms.




"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

USA or Alph,

Please provide a link where Delta said they would file within 4 months. Selectively releasing information to individuals by someone that actually has facts and data, is what is termed releasing insider information.

Without a public anouncement, or a SEC filing...

Cheers


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4500 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9903 times:

I sure hope this doesn't come to pass. Delta is a big thing here at SLC and a filing of bankruptcy could end up being one of the nails in SLC's coffin. They already trimmed down the hub forcing mainline flights into RJ flights...unpleasant.

On the other hand it may make them more competitive. I'd like to not have to pay $300 to fly from PIH-SLC and back. I can fly to Florida on that fare for god's sake! (Though Skywest provides that route).

But no, I really don't want this to occur. I enjoy having Delta around, I enjoy their mixed fleet, and a filing of bankruptcy would mean the end of both here at SLC.  Sad


User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9899 times:

Well they surely would not survive that...

Err.... Wrong. First class in short haul is now irrelivant in the US. Pamper the long haul and make the rest a hub and spoke LCC. You gain by having a lower cost structure and gain pax by having better comfort than the competition. You also gain by fleet simplification, and yes they would survive. Quite well. Of course, you're from Europe so I guess you are hinging the non-survivabillity on the lack of Airbus aircraft.

Lame.


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9896 times:

This thread is utter BS, and a sad reflection on some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here.

Delta is not on the verge on BK, and the 8 billion dollars worth of debt is not new, they have had it for years, have a plan to pay it, and have been paying it as scheduled. People often comment that because DL is losing money every day, how can they service this debt, but folks, one of the reasons they are losing money every day is because they are paying this debt as part of their daily costs.

Don't look for DL to be filing any time soon

J


User currently offlineATL2CDG From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 296 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

All:

Delta Air Lines' regional jet operation through Delta Connection, Inc. is the ONLY portion of the company making any money at the moment. It would be foolish for DL to consider reducing its regional jet fleet. It's quite juvenile to think that DL would consider fleet changes because passengers don't like the window location or 'cramped conditions'; unless you're doing jumping jacks or playing basketball in-flight, the regional jet fleet is perfectly fine for the routes on which DL has them.

The main source of cash hermoraging is the mainline pilots' contract. They are, far and above, the highest paid pilots in the U.S. commercial air carrier industry, by almost 30%. Without concessions from the pilots in the near term, I do question the on-going stability of Delta Air Lines. However, I do not think that the corporation is as close to bankruptcy as many would have us believe. Grinstein, the new CEO, is taking many new steps to re-evaluate how DL operates on the most basic of levels; I would think anything as major as bankruptcy would wait until after that evaluation is complete and analyzed.

TysV



Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
User currently offlineFlyingDoctorWu From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9723 times:

Name "1" U.S. Airline that has been better off filing for bankruptcy other than CO ?

Well for starters the ones still operating- being able to reorganize debt instead of completely folding has protected UA and US

Chris


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

America West, they were in Chapter 11 from 91 to around 94 and without the reorganization of that chapter 11 filing they would not be here today.

Ehh.. I wish they were gone..

But seriously, All I see in this thread is CO this CO that, where is hard proof that DL is in dire financial straits??

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Amwest:

Forgot about HP. You are most correct. My apologies. And you are right. America West has come a long way in improving. Continued success to you.

To All:

Every airline will be bankrupt no matter what employees take in pay cuts if the fuel prices don't go down. When you think about it. It cost you almost double to fill your own personal car. But, ticket prices remain the same.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineMit From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9473 times:


Please provide a link where Delta said they would file within 4 months. Selectively releasing information to individuals by someone that actually has facts and data, is what is termed releasing insider information.

Without a public anouncement, or a SEC filing...


Releasing insider information is not illegal. Profiting from insider information is illegal. Key distinction.

Unless the informant plans to sell Delta stock short, releasing the information is not illegal.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9413 times:

Delta needs more IFE as well as better seat pitch.

IFE's and seat pitch, while nice, are not what is going to make or break an airline financially.


User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9175 times:

I don't know about being near bankruptcy now, but give it time and they will be. What they really need to do is to get rid of Grinstein.

25 Ord : "Convert all 737-800's to coach with 35" pitch, reduce Business Elite pitch to 50" from 60" to get some more seats, and convert all coach seats on the
26 Blackbird615 : Delta RJ's do appear to be the cash cow at the moment and represent efficient asset deployment. My long term argument with Delta and RJ deployment is
27 Alpha 1 : Why would Delta go to a 35" seat pitch? It has been proven time and time again that this does not add revenue since there are fewer seats available to
28 DeltaMD11 : Artsy, Alpha, and ATL2CDG---all three very well-said. Kudos to you guys. DL has gotten stung because of it's wealth of available seats in light of the
29 N670UW : Of course, you're from Europe so I guess you are hinging the non-survivabillity on the lack of Airbus aircraft. Lame. No, your last sentence was prett
30 EA CO AS : DL's debt is over 20 BILLION dollars.......... Source, please? And, "Um, that's what someone told me," doesn't count.
31 Gigneil : DL's debt is over 20 BILLION dollars Heh that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard said here. N
32 Thrust : If Delta really is on the verge of bankruptcy, they had better file for Chapter 11, or if it's even worse, Chapter 7. An airline should not be afraid
33 N863DA : To MEA321, I'm guessing that I know you well, albeit without knowing it - largely given that I got the same information from the same source, concerni
34 EA CO AS : Delta's recent cancellation of all of their remaining 777s on order was a good indicator that they were nearing bankruptcy, because they were putting
35 Post contains links Phollingsworth : As for DLs debt and the like, the balance sheet on yahoo. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=DAL only goes through 30-Sep-03. They had $25 bill in liabil
36 Goomba : I'd agree that the crew costs are killing them based on what I've read, but it seems to me that operating such a variety of aircraft is to blame as we
37 Post contains images DeltaMD11 : Goomba, That idea would never work. The way DL's fleet is now you have the 115-287 passenger range well-covered, with a multitude of different capacit
38 Goomba : Crews can be also easily re-trained from the 767 to the 777. Crews could just as easily be trained from the 757 to the 777 as the cockpit of the 757 a
39 ConcordeBoy : Perhaps use the 767-400 for this route Yes, and watch it splash down a thousand miles short of the airfield..... so then get rid of the 777 They almos
40 DeltaMD11 : "Crews could just as easily be trained from the 757 to the 777 as the cockpit of the 757 and 767 are almost identical. What difference would that make
41 Post contains images Mlsrar : Pamper the long haul This sounds rather contradictory to your previous statement (not that I am in any way surprised by this) which said: reduce Busin
42 Srbmod : Some of you seem to think that Delta filing for CH. 11 would be the end of the airline. Delta does seriously need to get their house in order, and the
43 MEA321 : Im honestly surprised at how fast everyone jumped at me and called this thread non-sense! Had you read my intro. post you would have seen that I used
44 Artsyman : I did not state that Delta WILL file Chapter 11. The fact that the airline is billions of dollar in debt is true. **** Please go and find me a major a
45 Dl1011 : "737-200 737-300 737-800 757-200 767-200 767-300 777-200 MD-80 Am I forgetting any here?" Also add MD90's and 767-400's! When you add in all the engin
46 Dl1011 : Looks like Fred is leaving. "Date: March 12, 2004 To: All Delta Employees From: Jerry Grinstein, Chief Executive Officer Subject: Fred Reid Today, Fre
47 FlyPNS1 : DL isn't going to file BK in the next few months....it's not possible. You can't just declare BK whenever you feel like it. You have to prove that you
48 Atrude777 : What Delta needs to do is to cut back on a hub heavily again like AA did to STL, maybe get rid of SLC but keep high routes, again what AA did to STL.
49 Tu154m : Gigneil & EA CO AS Sorry to sound so ridiculous but here it is word for word from a Jan. 14, 2004 Internal Analyst Conference Call: A second area of f
50 Post contains images Coa764 : "Y'all know that CO is the best major airline there is. " Not in my opinion they are not. I have never found anything but CO employees to be rude and
51 Mlsrar : 60" is excessive. 50" allows an additional row Math please, that makes absolutely no sense. Most heavies don't have business elite as it is. Such a mo
52 BoingGoingGone : I'll make sure you're up for revocation again. Never been revoked, so not sure what you are refering to there. Furthermore, this was in response to th
53 Mlsrar : . As for the reduction from 60" to 50", the 60" pitch is excessive for this seat. Add the additional row and improve in flight services. Business Elit
54 BoingGoingGone : Well, I'm writing my these on Leadership 7.5 and Ronald Allen's history, so let me clarify a few things for you. First of all, 7.5 wasn't about outsou
55 Mlsrar : The further details of the downsizing and of 7.5 have eluded me thus far. Especially considering the barometer for who was kept and who was let go. If
56 Bmacleod : The best US airline in my opinion. Hope they stay out of bankruptcy through reorganization. What ever happened to "We love to fly and it shows"?
57 BoingGoingGone : The further details of the downsizing and of 7.5 have eluded me thus far. Especially considering the barometer for who was kept and who was let go. If
58 Mlsrar : Actually, the bigger hammer was on the Western Airlines Employees. The few that remain, very few, many retired in the last buyout were some of the mos
59 Alphascan : Shenzhen: Here is one analyist's take on DL's public statements regarding bankruptcy: From Air Transport World Online Wall Street analyst sees possibi
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