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AS Suspends LAX-YYC  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6335 times:

Alaska Airlines will suspend non-stop Los Angeles-Calgary service between 6 June 2004 and 30 October 2004.

Alaska Airlines operates a daily 737-400 on the route. The non-stop service will be suspended, but the flight remains. Between 6 June 2004 and 30 October 2004, the flight, same flight number and all, will make a stop in Seattle. This will mean mainline service on SEA-YYC, taking the place of one of four daily DH4 flights operated by Horizon Air.

Schedule effective 6 June through 30 October:

AS 698 YYC 0630-0700 SEA 0800-1042 734 Daily
AS 699 LAX 1743-2013 SEA 2048-2308 734 Daily

Non-stops resume after that.


a.
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

This is an oppy for Westjet to launch YYC-LAX and grab the nonstop traffic. LAX is on the WS plan for fall 2004.

I predict 3 daily WS to LAX initially: LAX-YYC/YVR/YYZ.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSebwhite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6100 times:

Don't forget, AC already flies YYC-LAX 2x daily, so AS had competition...but it doesn't on SEA-YYC.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6075 times:

AC already flies YYC-LAX 2x daily,

Westjet will eat AC alive on this route.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

HP is starting YYC-LAX non-stop this summer.
And yes WJ would slaughter AC on this route. I thought AS was doing rather well, planes were full but perhaps the yields weren't high enough.

Also I believe AC may have bumped it up to 3x daily, because on my way home from my trip the check in agent couldn't find my flight. There was a noonish one, and an evening one. Mine was for 10:20am. She talked to her supervisor and he said it's an additional flight. Not sure how permanent it is/was though.

Kris



Word
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6024 times:

Actually HP is not starting YYC-LAX this summer.

HP is launching YEG-LAX and YVR-LAX.

The Los Angeles - Calgary mentioned on their route map is a typo.
It should read Los Angeles - Edmonton.

AS just never got a foothold on that route. AS has a much bigger network out of Seattle anyway for connections all up and down the west coast.

It is surprising that airlines are actually removing capacity to the U.S. from YYC rather than adding.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

You're right, it is a typo. They are starting YYC-LAS though  Smile

Even more reason for WJ to hop in this route.



Word
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

How did you hear about Alaska did suspended service from LAX-YYC for this summer and will able resume with these flight again to YYC.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

WestJet must also consider the Montreal-Los Angeles route.

According to 2001 numbers between Canada-USA O&D travel, the Calgary/Montreal-Los Angeles route pairing is about 150,000 pax per year.

Given that YYZ has 5 daily AC + 2 daily AA, and that YUL will have only 2 daily AC (1 in the winter) w/ no competition, this will be a good route from YUL as well.

From my experiences at NW/CO, 18% of all eastern canada sales were directed to LAX. People chose NW due to the low-fares to LAX (as much as 350-400 return from both YUL and YYZ)... and AC offers $700-750 roundtrip.

YYC/YYZ/YVR/YUL all prime candidates, as well as Florida I gather.

Mark


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

WestJet must also consider the Montreal-Los Angeles route.

This route has much less potential for WJ than LAX-YVR/YYC/YYZ. YYZ & YVR are the lrgest LAX markets in Canada. YYC is WJ's base where a 73G can more easily be sked to LAX v.v. and easily returned to the WJ network.

Also, the lower YUL pci and poorer economic growth will auger against YUL-LAX and in favour of YYZ/YYC/YVR. I know this is repetitive but it's relevant.

WJ could operate some routes with less than daily ops which would make LAX-YEG/YWG/YUL possibles wth say 2-3/week each.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

Hopefully in time WJ can become (if it not already is) the Canadian version of Southwest.
Now all that's left is a 737 ops in South America, then the Americas will be ruled by the 737!.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5820 times:

Neil you dont have a clue what your talking about.

The stats show that the Montreal-Los Angeles city pair is something like 150,000 pax per year. Which is double Montreal-Halifax/Winnipeg and triple Montreal-Moncton, and larger than Montreal-Miami/Fort Lauderdale/Chicago..

But your speaking without knowing, which is par for the course these days.

Mark






User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

Neil you dont have a clue what your talking about. The stats show that the Montreal-Los Angeles city pair is something like 150,000 pax per year.

I know far more than a teenage "expert" yet to join the workforce (since you're getting personal Mark). The Stats Can numbers are fairly meaningless. They do not provide any insight into market elasticity, growth opportunities, per capita income, etc.

YYZ, YYC and YVR all maintain MORE nonstops to LAX than YUL with Alaska, Air Canada, & American. Hence, these 3 markets are the largest LAX markets in Canada and represent the LARGEST market opportunities with WJ to LAX.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

Yyz717,

How exactly is WJ supposed to eat AC on this route....

West Jet can not provide any connections out of the thir larget airport airport in the US.......

Do you know how many connecting passengers connect to LA through YYC from both FRA and LHR.

ALso do you know how many passengers connect in LAX to SYD, AKL, HNL.....and to cities within Calif....

Don't make these bold statements please.....


User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

WestJet should probably choose to fly to ONT, SNA. Why would they want to fly to LAX and pay more if they can only cater to the O&D market??

I suspect HP will jump in and start YYC-LAX. They have their eyes on Western Canada. And then could do well using a CRJ900.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

How exactly is WJ supposed to eat AC on this route....

West Jet can not provide any connections out of the thir larget airport airport in the US.......


YYC-LAX is overwhelmingly an O+D market. Anyway, WJ can feed YYC with far more passengers than AC from throughout Western Canada.

Do you know how many connecting passengers connect to LA through YYC from both FRA and LHR.

Very few I would imagine. AA/BA/UA operate 5 dailies on LHR-LAX. Why fly on AC thru YYC????????



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5721 times:

Could be Ontario, Long Beach, Orange County, or LAX

An announcement should be out in a month or so.



EH.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

"I know far more than a teenage "expert" yet to join the workforce (since you're getting personal Mark). The Stats Can numbers are fairly meaningless. They do not provide any insight into market elasticity, growth opportunities, per capita income, etc.

YYZ, YYC and YVR all maintain MORE nonstops to LAX than YUL with Alaska, Air Canada, & American. Hence, these 3 markets are the largest LAX markets in Canada and represent the LARGEST market opportunities with WJ to LAX."

-This teenage expert will challenge you, and yes we are getting personal when you use rhetoric over common sense. Also 2 years at NW/CO and analyzing trends make me qualified to know what is and what is not popular from YUL.. but thanks anyway.

So consider this, a market of 162,500 travellers in 2001 per stat can, where only 57% of the market travelled non-stop (as per 51-205 statcan). The only market of 100,000 passengers or more from YUL without direct competition. Now tell me where I have gone wrong? YYC/YYZ/YVR all have competition on this route. Furthermore, since open skies, this route pairing has jumped some 45%.

Lastly Neil, you made the same argument against my case for WestJet on YUL-YVR and YUL-YYC. And now look at both.....

Mark


User currently offlineUwoAviation From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Also, the lower YUL pci and poorer economic growth will auger against YUL-LAX and in favour of YYZ/YYC/YVR. I know this is repetitive but it's relevant.

This shows that Yyz717 has no idea what he is talking about. Quebec cities have been outperforming the rest of Canada for a number of years now. I take the YUL-LAX direct AC route a number of times during the year and its always very full.

I bet Yyz717 thinks the leafs will win the cup also Big grin

Josh


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

"I bet Yyz717 thinks the leafs will win the cup also"

-LOL.... 1967 thats all I have got to say.

What YYZ717 does not know is that there is more demand for YUL-LAX than YUL-FLL, where TS/SG/AC/and soon WS compete.. and methinks the yield is substantially higher as well, given that a significant portion of our elite travel at NW is LAX destined,

Mark


User currently offlineWjv04 From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

Wow, big hit on Calgary. Especially where I work, we do the ground handling for AS and QX. Had no idea QX was doing that bad here. The real news isn't AS dropping direct to lax, its QX pulling out all together.

WestJet will do well on this route, however Air Canada has the codeshare's that WestJet will never have. LAX Is more of a gateway out of Calgary. Id be willing to bet that 60-70% of people going to LAX on Air Canada, connect to other flights and that 50% of those connecting passengers go on via star alliance. Funny how in just the last couple of months YYC-LAX has become a route of interest with airlines.

Id be interested in AS thoughts on WJ to LAX, and if this has affected there choice to drop YYC-LAX. Perhaps they think the market will be flooded?

Also lets not forget that this is only effective till 30 October 2003 and does not begin untill 06 June


User currently offlineUwoAviation From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Mark,

I must agree with you with the little personal experience that I have. I was in California, SNA , and some friends met me there. All took NW flights through Detroit except for one who took the 797/798 AC direct flight combo.

You say that the YUL-LAX traffic is heavier than YUL-FLL? Even though Florida has its own line at YUL check-in?  Smile

Josh


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5631 times:

Yes.. YUL-FLL is very seasonal. Its almost non-existant in the summer.

So from Nov to Apr you get heavy traffic. In any event, YUL/YMX-FLL is under 100,000 pax.. just under though.

At NW/CO, our biggest destinations were LAX/SFO/SEA for sure. The yield management guys always said that NW has something like 18-20% of the YUL-LAX market, and most of the time you see people with crazy expedia fares like $400 return tx in.... which is a sign for WestJet to come along and kick some arse. I have every confidence that this route will work, especially if they can somehow make YUL-Moncton work  Big thumbs up

Mark


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quebec cities have been outperforming the rest of Canada for a number of years now.

Not in terms of economic growth, nor in terms of passenger growth.

I take the YUL-LAX direct AC route a number of times during the year and its always very full.

Your anecdotal experience is nice, but irrelevant.

The yield management guys always said that NW has something like 18-20% of the YUL-LAX market,

This stat is meaningless to show that WJ will jump into YUL-LAX before YYZ/YYC/YVR-LAX. No doubt many YYZ/YWG NW passengers are also LAX bound, perhaps more than YUL. Perhaps many DL customer on YYC-SLC are LAX bound. NO doubt many AA/UA/NW/DL/US/CO passengers from YYZ are also LAX bound thru US hubs.

The airlines themselves have spoken about LAX oppy's from Canada....and they rank YYZ, YVR and YYC as the top 3. YUL is a distant 4th.







Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5593 times:

Yyz717,

There's a SIGNIFICANT number of passnegers that come from LHR and FRA that use the YYC flights to SFO and LAX.

I used to do consulting work in Alberta and we used to obtain these numbers.

Also, Air Canada is well established in the LAX market and has been there for years.....Are you suggesting that travel agents in the LA market will all of sudden stop seling AC tickets in favour of WestJet.

What about United....Are they going to code share with WestJet.....

Every statement you make about WestJet is very unrealistic


25 FLYYUL : YUL is the only out of YYZ/YVR to grow for 2003. "This stat is meaningless to show that WJ will jump into YUL-LAX before YYZ/YYC/YVR-LAX. No doubt man
26 Yyz717 : Also, Air Canada is well established in the LAX market and has been there for years.....Are you suggesting that travel agents in the LA market will al
27 FLYYUL : So now YYC has more nonstop flights than Montreal combined? Whats next up your tree Neil? Mark
28 Yegbey01 : Yyz717, Buddy.... It's about awareness! the number of people that book tickets on their own on the Internet is still small relative to the overall pic
29 FLYYUL : "West Jet can do well on the LAX market... But they can't eat AC alive" -YEGBEY, I disagree man.. let me tell you why. Air Canada's main $$$ are from
30 Yyz717 : They can't match AC's shcedules out of YVR to LAX. WJ could quickly build to this level. the number of people that book tickets on their own on the In
31 Post contains images Searpqx : If we can return to talking about the two cities this thread is actually about. . . Wjvo4, AS isn't dropping service to YYC, nor is QX pulling out. Th
32 EA CO AS : Here's the press release, showing DIRECT service for the summer instead of nonstop, with an actual increase in service to YYC: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE M
33 YVR1968 : Exactly Duane Overall, AS/QX is reducing its YYC capacity (overall loss is 1 x daily DH4) to adjust to the summer travel trends. Other YYC summer 2003
34 ScottysAir : Thanks for showing me with press releases from Alaska Airlines. It would able began from YYC-SEA-LAX will able same plane. What are you think else was
35 Sebwhite : You're forgetting daily service on NW DTW-YYC on A319.
36 ScottysAir : Yes, that is correct for NW to DTW already. Also, it is already service from SLC-YYC flight with DL.
37 YVR1968 : The NW YYC-DTW service is the same as last year - no changes. I was only highlighting the changes from summer 2003/2004.
38 YHU : For the whole YVR/YUL thing, it also has to do with location. YVR obviously has more flights to LAX than YUL does, in the same way YUL has way more fl
39 Rindt : I think all it would take is ElAl to introduce TLV-YUL-LAX service to meet the demands of this route. In other news, do we really care what service YU
40 Post contains images FLYYUL : Rindt, I wont break down crying because "nobody pays attention to me" if El Al wont do YUL-LAX again, the funniest thing ive ever heard. You definitel
41 Rindt : Tell me Mark (and the rest of a.net, because we're all DYING to know) - what useful purpose do you serve this website? Do tell... do tell... You don't
42 Post contains images FLYYUL : Rob. So because I dont take pictures im not good for this website? I have airline experience (something you dont have) and have lots of knowledge abou
43 Yyz717 : I have airline experience (something you dont have) You were a junior check-in clerk Mark. Hardly the holy grail. have lots of knowledge about the wor
44 Post contains images FLYYUL : Neil... dont discount the amount of experiecne you gain by working in the front-line of an airline. Youve never had that experience, and should be the
45 Yyz717 : who the hell are you to tell me what to study or not? If I want to do aviation, then so be it. Just giving worthwhile advice from the Director level.
46 Post contains images FLYYUL : Dear Neilly. Im getting advise from several senior directors at Air Canada for your information, so thank you anyway. I realize that an aviation manag
47 Yyz717 : Im getting advise from several senior directors at Air Canada for your information, so thank you anyway. Advice from former government bureaucrats at
48 Post contains images Rindt : I would stop everything right here, and right now Mark... if only you could prove that you ARE able to do just ONE thing for this website - something
49 FLYYUL : So what about WestJet? /filler/[Edited 2004-03-17 08:45:39]
50 B747Skipper : Dear Mr. Rob Rindt... xxx I also am an A.Net member, a pilot, and I do not contribute any efforts in taking pictures for A.Net... others, with better
51 NoelG : B747Skipper - BRAVO!!!! You go straight on my respected users list. Noel.
52 Aa61hvy : Skip- Rarely do I agree with you, but in this case I do, well said.
53 VC-10 : Moderators are needed to quiet down any controversies For the record, Rint is NOT a moderator.
54 Post contains images Aloges : Thank you, Mr. Rindt, for telling everyone how worthless they are. Why don't you go on and support airliners.net by screening photos instead of insult
55 YEGspotter : I agree with the last few posts - this thread has turned into a parade of insults. WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD????
56 Post contains links NWA Man : Agreed with YEGspotter... very well put. Further discussion on Rindt's preposterous opinion can be found here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/si
57 Searpqx : Politics is part of global aviation, and as such will always creep into these boards. For the most part, when the posters act like adults, it adds int
58 Rindt : You guys clearly don't get the point - FLYYUL is notorious for taking threads, and turning them into debates about why specifically YUL is better than
59 FLYYUL : "You guys clearly don't get the point - FLYYUL is notorious for taking threads, and turning them into debates about why specifically YUL is better tha
60 As739x : Where did this thread go wrong? I read the bottom threads and had no idea what the topic was even about. For gosh (to be politically correct) enough w
61 Rindt : It all started with replies 8 through 11... then, as one would expect, it deteriorates even further. Mark - as I said before, and I'll say it again -
62 B747-437B : Actually Rob, I found that the thread was going along pretty well until YOU stepped in with your ridiculous comments that didn't even attempt to hide
63 FLYYUL : Replies 8 and 11 where ok. This thread spinned off to WestJet from Canada-LAX.. I was simply stating the case for YUL Service.... but again your not s
64 YHU : A new topic should have been started? The thread started about AS on LAX-YYC. That then let to Westjet to LAX. As no one "officially" knows where West
65 Searpqx : Mark - Rindt is way out of line, but as I said earlier, you're not blameless and neither is Neil. Up until your reply #8, the discussion was mainly ab
66 Westjet_8 : Back to Calgary, I find it odd how the amout of flights (at least transborder) go down in the summer. Would bussiness traffic not remain high? Also is
67 Rindt : I would have to agree with you Searpqx - reply 8 onwards is where things got out of hand. Unfortunately, things never seem to stop. Because, by reply
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