Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1647 times:
Last week I got to fly up to D.C. and experienced the River Visual Approach to runway 19. Boy was that a thrilling experience!
For the pilots out there, has it ever been legal to fly over downtown D.C? When was the prohibited area put up over the White House and Capitol? I was kind of surprised that it's perfectly legal to fly over the Pentagon; then again, it is literally right next to the airport.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Concord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 29 Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1628 times:
Jhooper,
I am not a pilot (or at least a commercial one). But I know that as long as 6 years ago, southbound arrivals were required to follow the river.
Worldperks From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1551 times:
Long before 9/11, it was a noise abatement requirement brought on by the aristocrats in Montgomery County Maryland and Fairfax County Virginia rather than the nice people of DC.
Repaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1507 times:
Jhooper,
Ok this doesn't exactly answer your question but as a student pilot in DC area I have to know what I am doing all the time inside and around the ADIZ or Air Defense Identification Zone.
There is a 15 mile ring around the DCA VOR. General aviation is most often off limits. They have shot down authority. Still I fly NW of Dulles and it's no problem. Just stay away from IAD airspace traffic and you are good.
Contrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1818 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1477 times:
There is one GA-type plane that regularly flies roughly 6 mile circles around DCA. I see it going over my apartment building all the time. It's a single engine, like a Cessna, and I heard it belongs to the FBI. It's been up there since shortly after September 11. I have no idea what they're doing up there.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1471 times:
I see all sorts of air traffic over my apartment.
It always has big guns on it tho.
It's a single engine, like a Cessna, and I heard it belongs to the FBI. It's been up there since shortly after September 11.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1399 times:
Repaulson ,
Thanks for the explanation, however I'm already familiar with the operational requirements of the ADIZ. I feel sorry for you guys in D.C. who basically have missles aimed at you whenever you fly. I have a friend who took lessons up there one time and got lost on their X.C. and flew right over Camp David!
Anyway, I'm inquiring as to the airspace requirements as they were long before 9/11. Specifically, I'm interested in a historical perspective as to when the D.C. area was off limits to air traffic. In other words, was there ever a time that D.C. was a "free for all" as soon as DCA airport was opened?
As for General Aviation, I do hope that full airspace access is restored as soon as possible. There were congressional hearings on this matter yesterday; hopefully they'll produce some results.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Petazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1373 times:
It has been restricted airpace for a long time now- at least 20 years. Probably a lot longer as I would guess that during the Cold War, the White House and Capitol would have been off limits to GA-flybys!
Repaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1358 times:
I know that DCA was (- and not sure when it ended) open to GA traffic in and out but had to stay clear of the white house off limits area. Don't know how long ago that ceased. I tell you one day last summer I was down at national watch aircraft depart/land and I heard what I knew to be a Cessna 1?2 and it was directly over head! I don't know at what height (probably a few thousand feet) but I swear it was right over national... was very surprised. I guess you can get permission to enter that B airspace if you're GA!
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1311 times:
GA was suspended from DCA on 9/11 when the rest of the national airspace was closed. The ban has not since been lifted.
Where are you doing your training in D.C. There are ways to get into the 3 GA airports close to the Capitol, but there are specific requirements that must be met. A simple "request into Class B" won't work anymore.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Worldperks From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1282 times:
Contrails,
That plane belongs to INS, and from what I'm told it has sophisticated infra-red equipment on board. I do know that when it's seen over Wintergreen Plaza in Rockville, there is usually an INS raid there the same day.
Lately it's been seen a lot over MC's Germantown Maryland campus. But we have mostly diplomat's kids, so I doubt if there will be a raid.
PA34plt From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 44 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1261 times:
As a pilot in the ADIZ I don't think the plane is an INS aircraft. It is most likely a traffic watch plane. They are allowed in the FRZ with the proper background checks. The INS and FBI use shiny black and yellow black hawks.
Contrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1818 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1259 times:
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1227 times:
i know of the cessna being mentioned - i've seen it several times. i'm pretty sure that it is not a traffic reporter, as i've seen it fly over the city at higher altitudes, rather than at lower altitudes right over the beltway/270. not to mention the non-rush hour times late at night or during the middle of the day. i'm guessing it is in support of the surveillance aircraft in the area, but more from an airspace security purpose - i seriously doubt the connection to any 'raids' in rockville.
Repaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1158 times:
Jhooper, I fly out of JYO - Leesburg and fly usually west around Loudoun county and sometimes farther west to WVa...
Kempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 372 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1069 times:
I usually see a Cessna 337 flying over I270 near Rockville. I am sure that one does road traffic control or reporting, and flies out of GAI-Montgomery County Airpark. Even though the 337 looks a lot like Cessna singles, it is a twin, one facing forward and one facing back. Most notable is the split empennage.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1037 times:
Could the cessna maybe belong to Civil Air Patrol?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Espion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1007 times:
thats interesting.Every morning around 7am i see a cessna 172 or 182 flying right over my house toward I-270(im about 1 mile south of rockville).Some days its a cessna 377 skymaster. Do you know if its in any way linked to the cessna your talking about Kempa?btw,my location is the star on the map below. The aircraft usally is flying west toward I-270
ANA777Master From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 980 times:
I used to live right under the river approach/departure path to/from DCA. I always loved to hear the planes flying overhead in the morning and at dawn.
(No, I didn't live in a river boat you smart-ass
Gocaps16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4298 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 920 times:
I recently flew the visual approach about 2 weeks ago from Dallas-Ft. Worth. It never gets boring since I've done this approach 10,000 times. If you guys are still wondering, the 30-minute rule still does apply inbound and outbound of DCA.
When I lived in Arlington, I used to live near the approach path for 19. never bothers me even at especially at 1-2am when the last flights arrives. As for departures, the last schedule departure is around 10pm or so due to noise abatement.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 890 times:
I don't see the point of the 30 minute rule, especially outbound. The captain usually turns the seatbelt sign on 15-20 minutes before landing on all flights anyway; this should be perfectly adaquate. It's best to let the captain decide when it's safe to be up and when the passengers should be seated.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Repaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 833 times:
Waivers:
TSA has granted hundreds of waivers to elected officials to allow them to fly their GA planes into DCA. To receive a waiver, all passenger names must be checked against the national criminal database and the aircraft must carry an armed law enforcement officer. TSA does not require these flights to have secure cockpit doors and neither passengers nor baggage need to be screened for weapons or explosives.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 807 times:
So the senator who flies his Piper Cub to DCA has to have a guy with a gun sitting in the other seat!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
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