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Flying To Washington, D.C.  
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

Last week I got to fly up to D.C. and experienced the River Visual Approach to runway 19. Boy was that a thrilling experience!

For the pilots out there, has it ever been legal to fly over downtown D.C? When was the prohibited area put up over the White House and Capitol? I was kind of surprised that it's perfectly legal to fly over the Pentagon; then again, it is literally right next to the airport.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Jhooper,

I am not a pilot (or at least a commercial one). But I know that as long as 6 years ago, southbound arrivals were required to follow the river.

That final turn is wild!



No info
User currently offlineWorldperks From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2148 times:

Long before 9/11, it was a noise abatement requirement brought on by the aristocrats in Montgomery County Maryland and Fairfax County Virginia rather than the nice people of DC.



User currently offlineRepaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2104 times:

Jhooper,

Ok this doesn't exactly answer your question but as a student pilot in DC area I have to know what I am doing all the time inside and around the ADIZ or Air Defense Identification Zone.

Multimedia presentation from AOPA about the ADIZ... Interesting
http://www.aopa.org/adiz/host.html

There is a 15 mile ring around the DCA VOR. General aviation is most often off limits. They have shot down authority. Still I fly NW of Dulles and it's no problem. Just stay away from IAD airspace traffic and you are good.

Enjoy!

Repaulson


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2074 times:

There is one GA-type plane that regularly flies roughly 6 mile circles around DCA. I see it going over my apartment building all the time. It's a single engine, like a Cessna, and I heard it belongs to the FBI. It's been up there since shortly after September 11. I have no idea what they're doing up there.


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2068 times:

I see all sorts of air traffic over my apartment.

It always has big guns on it tho.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

It's a single engine, like a Cessna, and I heard it belongs to the FBI. It's been up there since shortly after September 11.

Patrolling.

N


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1996 times:

Repaulson ,

Thanks for the explanation, however I'm already familiar with the operational requirements of the ADIZ. I feel sorry for you guys in D.C. who basically have missles aimed at you whenever you fly. I have a friend who took lessons up there one time and got lost on their X.C. and flew right over Camp David!

Anyway, I'm inquiring as to the airspace requirements as they were long before 9/11. Specifically, I'm interested in a historical perspective as to when the D.C. area was off limits to air traffic. In other words, was there ever a time that D.C. was a "free for all" as soon as DCA airport was opened?

As for General Aviation, I do hope that full airspace access is restored as soon as possible. There were congressional hearings on this matter yesterday; hopefully they'll produce some results.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

It has been restricted airpace for a long time now- at least 20 years. Probably a lot longer as I would guess that during the Cold War, the White House and Capitol would have been off limits to GA-flybys!

User currently offlineRepaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

I know that DCA was (- and not sure when it ended) open to GA traffic in and out but had to stay clear of the white house off limits area. Don't know how long ago that ceased. I tell you one day last summer I was down at national watch aircraft depart/land and I heard what I knew to be a Cessna 1?2 and it was directly over head! I don't know at what height (probably a few thousand feet) but I swear it was right over national... was very surprised. I guess you can get permission to enter that B airspace if you're GA!

Repaulson


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

GA was suspended from DCA on 9/11 when the rest of the national airspace was closed. The ban has not since been lifted.

Where are you doing your training in D.C. There are ways to get into the 3 GA airports close to the Capitol, but there are specific requirements that must be met. A simple "request into Class B" won't work anymore.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineWorldperks From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

Contrails,

That plane belongs to INS, and from what I'm told it has sophisticated infra-red equipment on board. I do know that when it's seen over Wintergreen Plaza in Rockville, there is usually an INS raid there the same day.

Lately it's been seen a lot over MC's Germantown Maryland campus. But we have mostly diplomat's kids, so I doubt if there will be a raid.  Big grin



User currently offlinePA34plt From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

As a pilot in the ADIZ I don't think the plane is an INS aircraft. It is most likely a traffic watch plane. They are allowed in the FRZ with the proper background checks. The INS and FBI use shiny black and yellow black hawks.

User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

Thanks, Worldperks. Very interesting.


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

i know of the cessna being mentioned - i've seen it several times. i'm pretty sure that it is not a traffic reporter, as i've seen it fly over the city at higher altitudes, rather than at lower altitudes right over the beltway/270. not to mention the non-rush hour times late at night or during the middle of the day. i'm guessing it is in support of the surveillance aircraft in the area, but more from an airspace security purpose - i seriously doubt the connection to any 'raids' in rockville.

User currently offlineWorldperks From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

PA34plt,

Most traffic is done by helicopter now. But that first started in 1978 with the Colgan Airways crash which took down WTOP's Bob Marberg.

Check out the Washington Post's archives. An at-length story on the INS plane appeared shortly after 9/11.



User currently offlineRepaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

Jhooper, I fly out of JYO - Leesburg and fly usually west around Loudoun county and sometimes farther west to WVa...


User currently offlineKempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

I usually see a Cessna 337 flying over I270 near Rockville. I am sure that one does road traffic control or reporting, and flies out of GAI-Montgomery County Airpark. Even though the 337 looks a lot like Cessna singles, it is a twin, one facing forward and one facing back. Most notable is the split empennage.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Davies



User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

Could the cessna maybe belong to Civil Air Patrol?


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineEspion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

thats interesting.Every morning around 7am i see a cessna 172 or 182 flying right over my house toward I-270(im about 1 mile south of rockville).Some days its a cessna 377 skymaster. Do you know if its in any way linked to the cessna your talking about Kempa?btw,my location is the star on the map below. The aircraft usally is flying west toward I-270




Snakes on a Plane!
User currently offlineANA777Master From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

I used to live right under the river approach/departure path to/from DCA. I always loved to hear the planes flying overhead in the morning and at dawn.
(No, I didn't live in a river boat you smart-ass Smile


User currently offlineGocaps16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4346 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

I recently flew the visual approach about 2 weeks ago from Dallas-Ft. Worth. It never gets boring since I've done this approach 10,000 times. If you guys are still wondering, the 30-minute rule still does apply inbound and outbound of DCA.

When I lived in Arlington, I used to live near the approach path for 19. never bothers me even at especially at 1-2am when the last flights arrives. As for departures, the last schedule departure is around 10pm or so due to noise abatement.

Kevin


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

I don't see the point of the 30 minute rule, especially outbound. The captain usually turns the seatbelt sign on 15-20 minutes before landing on all flights anyway; this should be perfectly adaquate. It's best to let the captain decide when it's safe to be up and when the passengers should be seated.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineRepaulson From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1430 times:

House Press release on GA traffic in/out of DCA

http://www.house.gov/transportation/press/press2004/release17.html

Waivers:
TSA has granted hundreds of waivers to elected officials to allow them to fly their GA planes into DCA. To receive a waiver, all passenger names must be checked against the national criminal database and the aircraft must carry an armed law enforcement officer. TSA does not require these flights to have secure cockpit doors and neither passengers nor baggage need to be screened for weapons or explosives.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

So the senator who flies his Piper Cub to DCA has to have a guy with a gun sitting in the other seat!  Laugh out loud


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
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