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Why Is UA's New Livery Growing So Slowly?  
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

United introduced their colorscheme a few weeks ago. Since then, only 5 aircraft have received the new livery...4 737s and 1 772. When NW introduced their livery, they had over 15 aircraft by a month in the new livery. Maybe that was because their A330s were delivered in the scheme, but I noticed their DC-9 fleet was converted to the new colors very quickly...at least 10 by the end of the month. Why is United very slowly introducing their livery? For public acceptance? Also, when does UA plan to paint their livery on the 744, the Airbuses, and the 767 and 757?


Fly one thing; Fly it well
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4683 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6520 times:

Funny - the same thing could be asked of DL.




"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

most likely bcs the planes are being painted in the new livery roughly on the same schedule they would be repainted with the old livery in heavy maintenance checks. see the many previous posts on why livery changes are not a significant adverse cost to airlines.

User currently offlineUnited4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 291 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

Although the new c/s saves United money over repainting aircraft in the old one, this does not apply if the aircraft does not need a repaint. Basically United are only repainting aircraft when they are due for it anyway.

IMHO this is completely appropriate given their current situation (Ch11 protects them to reorganise into a profitable concern, not to spend money repainting aircraft unnecessarily, and they have bigger priorities anyway).

Mike


User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Probably because they don't have the money. Remember, United is still in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

Airways6max, you have a point. UA is in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, but that's not the reason they can't pay for it I don't think...it's b/c of the recent $192 million loss they suffered...they are low on cash. It puzzles me...why the hell does an airline decide to get a new livery when they are in bankruptcy? A new livery is not an incredible promotional tool. All a passenger really cares about is good service, and good prices, you would expect. I am very picky about paint schemes for airlines, but just because an airline has an ugly livery means jack to me...all I care about are ticket prices and service when flying an airline.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

i'd encourage you to look up previous posts about the costs and value of livery changes, but the long and short of it is that:

1) no, it isnt a tremendous additional cost beyond normal repainting

2) to roll out a new branding/livery is a very typical and effective marketing strategy for a company looking to refresh its image, signal a new direction, and reflect a new way of doing business.


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

Thank you for your advice Potomac. Will try to find this information.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineKurt From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6086 times:

I saw a CRJ in the new livery yesterday (3/16) at Denver. Not sure if it was a CRJ200 or 700, but it was down on the east end of Concourse B, on the south side. Anybody know details on this aircraft?

Don't forget the Ted aircraft, either. Saw two Ted 320s at the same time at Reno yesterday as well (about 6:15 a.m.).


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

Thanks Kurt, but I already knew that a CRJ was in the new livery. Two TED A320s is new though, there was only one I knew of. Do you know how many A320s United is going to paint in the TED livery? Will any of them receive the new United livery?


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5979 times:

i'd imagine that all 320's will be eventually be repainted, though i'm guessing that those designated for ted use will get repainted sooner. that being said, there are definitely ted planes out there with ted configurations inside but mainline livery on the outside.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5904 times:

Airways6max, you have a point. UA is in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, but that's not the reason they can't pay for it I don't think...it's b/c of the recent $192 million loss they suffered...they are low on cash. It puzzles me...why the hell does an airline decide to get a new livery when they are in bankruptcy? A new livery is not an incredible promotional tool. All a passenger really cares about is good service, and good prices, you would expect. I am very picky about paint schemes for airlines, but just because an airline has an ugly livery means jack to me...all I care about are ticket prices and service when flying an airline.

Planes get painted at their heavy maintenance checks, and generally no sooner. They will apply the new livery to planes at that time, and no earlier.

A livery is a GREAT promotional tool. It helps define you as new and different, and they want it to differentiate themselves from the United that was going out of business.

Will any of them receive the new United livery?

The Ted planes have the livery they'll be wearing. Its based on the new United livery, and it doesn't make much sense to repaint the Ted planes into a non-Ted livery.

N

[Edited 2004-03-18 00:25:48]

User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

Kurt,
There are two or so crj's in the new paint scheme, and I think 8, 737's in the new as well.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5693 times:

Don't rush it!
Let's sit back and enjoy this livery while it last.




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 395 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

There are 15-20 A320s painted in TED colors. It is extremely rare to see an old livery on the A concourse in DEN. There are more than 10 737s completed, too. The emphasis is on the 737s now, specifically the old Shuttle planes. Get you Shuttle views in now...they won't be around too much longer.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Planes get painted at their heavy maintenance checks, and generally no sooner. They will apply the new livery to planes at that time, and no earlier.

Why is it that every one thinks that planes only get painted right out of checks...??? In 5 years working as a OSVM Paint Rep for my airline do you know how many planes I saw get painted right out of check...?? Zero, Ziltch..Nada..None. That included: Mine, United, Northwest and Continental, all of whom where getting their planes painted at the same shop. ALL of the UAL aircraft I saw get painted came directly off line from the Asian market. Walking onboard I found the aircraft to be still catered and even ended up helping the UAL Rep empty all the trash, which I will say was a chore on a 747-400...!!

I'd say right now UAL is in no real rush to add the new livery. They first need to SURVIVE..!! Jet fuel prices are sky rocketing, they are still showing a negative cash flow and if the current fleet paint is still good, it's a major cost to them just to pull an aircraft off line to change its colors on a plane that dosn't need new paint.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Possibly embarrasment?
.
.
.
.
.
.


User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5274 times:

I saw one of the 737's with the new livery at DEN yesterday and I must say it looked beautiful.

User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5175 times:


Greg,

I agree with you. The new livery is far less sophisticated than what I expected. I also believe it will not stand the test of time.

It could be that they're going slow to assess the overall acceptance. They might have to adopt a "plan b" such as Delta did a few years ago.



Curt / concord977
Washington, DC






No info
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2039 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 5129 times:
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FYI, I sent an email to UA Customer Service a few weeks ago, the first 744 isn't scheduled for repaint until sometime November, they were not sure about any of the Airbus aircraft.

User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

"It could be that they're going slow to assess the overall acceptance. They might have to adopt a "plan b" such as Delta did a few years ago."

They are not going slow to "assess acceptance." This is the new scheme plain and simple. The planes will be repainted as the need arises, not on a rush schedule. United has already said 72 planes will be repainted by yearend.

Also, Delta had no "plan b." Delta unveiled a new livery in 1997 under then-CEO Ron Allen. Shortly after that Allen was gone and Leo Mullin became CEO. He wanted to make his own mark on the airline and initiated his own new design. It had absolutely nothing to do with people liking/disliking the 1997 livery or a "plan b."


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4822 times:

Actually, I've had a long time to consider this thread, and Ord, you are right. This is actually a rather wise move on United's part. Surveys were on airliners.net and jetphotos.net asking people to rank the overall opinion of the livery. In each case, the majority voted it was just good, acceptable, not excellent. The public therefore must like the United gray colors a lot. If the livery isn't in high demand immediately by the overall public, but it is appealing, the best procedure is to gradually paint over the gray colors. And it makes sense...when I think about, I actually don't want the gray colors to evaporate. In addition, when TWA introduced their last ever livery, they very gradually painted over the Twin Red Stripes, and never fully painted their fleet in the new livery. But, they had painted over the majority of their fleet by 2000 since the new livery was unveiled in 1996. I just think its reasonable that United paint at least one of each type of aircraft they have in the new livery now...just one. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is a common procedure.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4705 times:


Ord,

Whether I am right about UA going slow, or whether you are right about them not going slow is pure speculation - which I indicated in my initial post (with the words . . . "it could be" . . .).

As for Delta's plan b, you are flat-out wrong. I have in front of me four issues of Marketing World magazine that describes every aspect of this "branding failure". They describe this as one of the worst (and most costly) branding mistakes in airline history. The issue dates are 11/7/97, 3/9/98, 5/5/98 and 7/11/98.

Delta conducted 132 Focus Groups in 24 cities specifically on their brand identity, in conjunction with the intermediate paint scheme of 1997. The also surveyed the opinions of 9,437 employees at all levels. The feedback was overwhelmingly negative regarding this paint scheme. The negative feedback was primarily due to three reasons:

a) the new design was far too similar to the old wedge design.
b) the cheatline was deemed to be 30-years outdated.
c) the "white" of the fuselage was actually "cream" and looked dirty.

You can "spin" this as a new CEO wishing to leave his mark on the carrier's identity - but the reality is that he was fixing a major mistake.

United had three distinct versions of its orange-stripe scheme - so they too are not above making adjustments and corrections to their image.

I stand by my original comments (whether they ever intend to reconsider their newest scheme or not). Their newest scheme is too simplistic, monochromatic and somewhat trendy. I would really be surprised if their entire fleet carries this new look in 10 or 15 years.

Best regards -



Curt / concord977
Washington, DC





[Edited 2004-03-23 04:41:57]


No info
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 4625 times:

I couldn't imagine the conversation at ORD or DEN...

"Hey... where are all the United planes today?"
"Oh, I heard they are repainting them."
"All at once?!?"
"Yeah, some people bitched the last time they did it that they were rolling it out too slowly."
"Oh. That's kinda silly."
"Yeah. By the way, what are you here for?"
"Well, I'm headed to Orlando for a vacation."
"Really? What flight?"
"Uh... let's see... United flight twelve, thir... uh... Uh oh."
"Hey, don't sweat it... at least it will be in the new livery!"
"Yeah... great..."



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4532 times:


InnocuousFox,

Funny transcript. However, if the new livery were meaningless to the business they would've saved the money in the first place and left them grey.

It is important enough to them to spend quite a bit per aircraft, and another healthy amount to promote the image within the industry.



Curt / concord977
Washington, DC






No info
25 Ord : Concord977, I guess you learn something every day. I did not know about the negative feedback on Delta's Ron Allen scheme. If there is any way to scan
26 InnocuousFox : "However, if the new livery were meaningless to the business they would've saved the money in the first place and left them grey" That wasn't my point
27 Concord977 : InnocuousFox, OK, I understand your point. Ord, I have a scanner, but I don't have a way of hosting the images so that I can link you to them. I will
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