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Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?  
User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3482 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7675 times:

Was just looking at aircraft configurations on the LH website and noticed that there is no first class on board their A346's. They have their new A330-300's configured with first and they fly fewer people less distance. Their 744's have three classes so why not the A346?

What routes are they being used on that don't justify trying to attract the premium passengers? Just interested, no mal-intent - before any of you start getting on your Teutonic high horses.


come visit the south pacific
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1438 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7586 times:

I know they are used on FRA-YYZ, FRA-YYZ routes. But I would expect that these would justify having 1st Class.


t.dot photography
User currently offlineHardkor From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7529 times:

Maybe they figure that the A340 600 is such a smooth, sweet ride, that they don't even need to bother with a first class
After having seen it take off from YVR several times, that's just my opinion

User currently offlineAC345 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

Just a guess here, they are for markets that don't really need a first class. LH currently operates them to YVR and starting tomorrow to YYZ. I don't know about YYZ, but YVR is a fairly casual, laidback city. My feelings is that people around here do not put that much an emphasis on luxury. If you go for a walk in downtown you won't see any high fashion like you probably would in Paris or NYC. Vancouver is all about the outdoors, sports, living well and also a lot of common sense. And it's common sense that if you have a good business class with a lie-flat seat, you won't blow another few thousands to fly in first. Just my 2 Canadian cents from YVR.

User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7367 times:

LH is not alone in this. As AC345 has pointed out, more airlines are going for a good business class with flat beds. AF is also on a major restructuring plan. It's first A340 F-GLZK reconfigured in a two class configuration is already flying CDG-EWR exclusively. EWR is a very high yield market with the capability of filling up the First class, but with a superior business class product, airlines are finding that they can save some money, and add some more seats to cattle class too...


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8494 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7280 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

SAA is the same, no first on any A340s. SA is the first airline to operate 3 different A340 variants and they are all two class.

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

WindowSeat & AC345 & Andz

Yes, o'kay, but given your rationales, why three classes on their A333's?


come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

I think the 3 classes onboard the A333 is because of the aircraft coming from Sabena in that configuration. I believe they also have PTVs. I could be wrong, just something I thought I read on here once.

EMiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2258 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7042 times:


someone correct me if I am wrong, but it's not the A333 that come from SN, but the A332, which are operated in C/Y config. Also, PTVs of course exist only in F and C on Lufthansa.

Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Because Lufthansa has lost credibility in the premium segment. Who would buy First Class from an airline that has otherwise decided to become deliberately crap (cutting down on service, catering, no PTVs, "new" Business Class which is a copy of what others had ages ago, more and more CRJs on European routes, smaller seats in Europe, etc.)?

User currently offlineVivamuci From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

I just signed up now to reply to this topic ....

first of all it's right that the a333 comes from airbus direct and the a332 from sabena and swiss.

lufthansa has not lost credibility in premium segment. i fly a lot and intercont only paid first class. as i am based in muc lh is a great choice and frankly spoken they are not that far from sq standard in first. i have flown most major asian carrier in f ... a drawback for lh is the 744 config in first but the service is above sq ... the traditional f customer does not care about service cutback in other classes ... a lot of destinations do not have potential for an pax load that makes economical sense to fly with an f class. so why fly it for prestige. the a333 however serves higher yield destinations so haveing a first on that aircraft makes sense.

i totally agree that their c service product is not good at all ( i know that this is where they, as most airlines, generate a lot of money ).

but someone who says that lh has lost its credibility with premium f passenger can only be someone that never regularly flies in first international.

[Edited 2004-03-18 10:06:57]

User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

LH is using those A340-600s just where the first class is not justified, because it was either empty or filled with upgrades only. The A340-600 and the 747-400 have more or less the same capacity for LH.

16/64/310 = 390
16/78/274 = 368
16/99/234 = 349

54/315 = 369
72/263 = 335

note: those are not mathematical equations  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2258 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

but someone who says that lh has lost its credibility with premium f passenger can only be someone that never regularly flies in first international.


is it arrogance or just ignorance that makes you say things like this (do you actually believe you are the only person on earth flying F?). But then, since you wanted to know what my background is in flying F class, here are my flights in F since January 2004:

CDG-BEY, Air France
BEY-CDG, Air France
LHR-SFO, British Airways
SFO-LHR, British Airways
MUC-JFK, Lufthansa
JFK-FRA, Singapore
CDG-HKG, Cathay
HKG-SIN, Singapore
SIN-SYD, Singapore
SYD-LHR, British Airways
MUC-JFK, Lufthansa
JFK-CDG, Air France
FRA-GRU, Lufthansa
EZE-CDG, Air France
LHR-IAD, British Airways
ORD-LHR, British Airways
CDG-NRT, Air France
NRT-FRA, Lufthansa

The intention is not to brag, but this should give you an idea that I get to see several airlines' F class on a regular basis. I tend to avoid US carriers, and I stick to airlines from one of the big three alliances for FF reasons.

My verdict holds: LH's F has phantastic seats, the other aspects are fine, but unspectacular. This is also what I have stated in another thread .

But in any case, that was not the point of my post, as in addition to your arrogant comment, you did not properly read what I said: I said LH has lost credibility as a premium carrier because of an overall reduction of service standards. I did not say that their F class was bad, I said that overall LH has chosen to strip its services. And, yes, I do care what they do to their shorthaul product. I usually fly to Germany several times a week, and thanks to the nasty habit of using CRJs on many lines from Paris and having an overall dismal service, I avoid them wherever I can for travel between France and Germany. Of course that bad image also affects my motivation to go longhaul with them, even if it is in F.

But good for them you like them.

User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

~ Half the flight are night flights

- Sleeping comfort / flat beds used to be one of the First Class selling points

- More and more Business Class products offer good/flat sleeping comfort, including LH's new business class.

- It is hard to justify a First Class ticket for business travelers these days, why First iso Business class ? It costs twice as much ...

- Its a world wide trend Co, KLM, NWA, SAS and Delta scrapped First all together, filling the square meters with Business proved more profitable ..

- Many 3 class carriers scrap First on part of their fleets: CX, SQ, BA, AF ...

- The trend is more offering a product in between Business and Economy ..

User currently offlineFraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

LH will also change some of their A343 to a 2-class-configuration to meet the demand on certain routes.
So far the A346 are used to EZE, KIX, ICN, YYZ and YVR. I guess that the C/Y product will be used to a lot North American destinations like BOS, DEN, MIA and others, which have not much F demand.

To the discussion above, I think LH is one of the most reliable airlines in the world. They still offer a product above average. I also don't understand why they left out the PTV's but this topic has been discussed to death. So no more comment.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17285 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Add to this the fact that most Eurocarriers don't have First on Euroroutes, while in the States the carriers do have First. In fact, on Euroroutes, the only diffs between monkey and biz is a barely wider seat (sometimes), a curtain behind you and free champagne (again sometimes).

As people say, it's hard to fill F on biz routes. Especially given the global economy of the last few years.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

LH 346s will fly on routes with less premium demand while the new 333s will do premium routes like JFK and DXB. I have only flown on LX in C with the new "flat seats". There is a huge difference between them and the completely flat LH F seats.

While I agree that LH longhaul Y is pretty much total crap, their C and F are very nice products. In C, food is top notch, service great for me (SEN), and the seats are fine. Above all, LH C is a very consistent product and I have never been disappointed. According to a purser on a recent flight, F should be upgraded soon.

The changes to M&M are a totally different matter altogether. A total joke. TG*G here I come...

Greetings from JW Marriott Phuket,


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineAOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

What a list ! Please tell me you're job, I'm not kidding, my dream is to fly First class, I'd fly long haul every week if I could. I want your job lol.

User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2258 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6098 times:


I run my own firm. In any case, my point was not to brag about my flights, but vivamuci - who is a 21-24 year old "product managemer" - really missed the tone of his first post on a.net that I felt compelled to give some qualification to his point of view.

User currently offlineVivamuci From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6058 times:


i am not ignorant nor arrogant i simply fly only intercont as i rather take a night train in europe .. besides that i only need to commute between japan, germany and us east coast... so do a lot of my coworkers and therefor we don´t rate lh by any other aspect. thank you that you try to give some qualification on my point of view but lisitng all your flights here says already pretty much about you. anyhow i won´t argue .. have safe and enjoyable flights

User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

This move to Business only (as a premium class) bewilders me.

I come from the South Pacific where if you have to travel, you mostly have to travel far for work - Australia's almost domestic.

Recently, we flew WLG-AKL with QF economy, AKL-HKG with CX business, HKG-LAX again with CX business, LAX-AKL with QF business (but were upgraded to first) and AKL-WLG with QF economy.

The Cathay Pacific cabin service in business far surpassed that of Qantas' first class product yet the suites on board QF were far more comfortable.

My summation is that if you're going to invest in the hardware of equipping your craft with a new expensive outlay, then follow it up with staff training etc - it will pay off, otherwise leave it all to CX, SQ, EK etc they are doing it so well.

Perhaps this is what LH is coming to realise.


come visit the south pacific
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