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ATA Express Pulling Out Of CID? Why?  
User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4026 times:



Here's the article. It takes alittle bit to load.

http://www.kwwl.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201720130


What I don't get is that these flights are running packed 7 days a week. People drive from all over eastern Iowa to get the cheap fares from the airline and they just up and pull out!! It doesn't make any sense to me what so ever. Every saab is packed going both directions.

What would make an airline move or drop a market that is making money?


"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSprxflyswa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3990 times:

Probably because they are going to get paid from the airport in Ft Wayne,IN so they can maybe squeeze more cash out of the SAABs. I love how all these media outlets keep saying ATA is pulling out, making it seem as they have jets going into CID, LEX, etc. Little mention of C8 propjobs.
Anyway, Chicago Express seems like a BS outfit if you ask me. (Or don't, for that matter.) chasing an extra $1 and f'in the fine folks in E. Iowa that have supported them thus far. I bet C8 will eliminate FWA as soon as the city/airport ends $ supply to them.


User currently offlineAAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3954 times:

It's the game you play with the LCCs.... The smaller cities suffer. If you can't pay up, then your local LCC will close up.

User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Sprxflyswa:

Your absolutly right!! C8 is a BS outfit in that regard. This is the third time that they have pulled out of CID. The first two times they were using JS31's and 32's so that may have been an equipment thing back then.

Now is there anybody else that is going to possibly take over for chicago air express, not nessecarily at CID, but across the network?
I would love to see maybe independence air take over C8's chicago west network or piedmont when (and if) usair finally calls it quits.



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

No one is "f'in" the folks in that area. DSM, CID, and MLI were too close together to serve all three. Some markets are successful beyond imagination (FNT) and others wither. The smart airline adjusts this mix to achieve maximized profits -- especially in this revenue environment. From what I saw in CID, AA owns the town. Combine that with UA to ORD and you've got an airline bloodbath. Bottom line: support the service you have today if you wish to keep it tomorrow. CID's flights were far from "packed going both directions," not to speak of their yield.

C8 isn't a B.S. outfit (at least not for the reason you mentioned). Remember, the schedule is controlled by ATA. C8 service helps many more small cities (as their sole LCC) than are hurt by the withdrawal of service. C8 has only dropped service to three cities in recent (i.e. Saab) history.

To the contrary, I've thought FWA would be a prime market in our current service area and continue to believe so -- despite its proximity to other C8/ATA cities. Time will tell.

joe


User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

We have supported our airlines. When Big UA was in here up until last year Jan. Almost every flight was packed. Now that its all RJ's in and out to chicago (nwa runs 1 or 2 flights to MSP with DC9 equip) there still packed. I would like to see where you got your infomation from regarding this. I have lived here for 17 yrs. and do fly frequently. I not upset, just curious as to you source of info.

"DSM, CID, and MLI were too close together to serve all three"

So why not just serve 1 or 2? CID is 2:45mins east of DSM. MLI is 1:45 east of CID, ok MLI is to close, but CID from DSM? You could do both easily to MDW and not lose anything. Even if you did what Midex express did 2 yrs. ago, Milwaukee to CID-MLI and then back, except it would be MDW-CID-DSM and back.

Point is, if you have a strong market base, then why move and drop one or more locations just to chase a buck that might not be there?!

Besides ATA had a market here that WN hasn't even touched. There is money to be made here in Iowa.

Its a gamble, no doubt about that, but this still doesn't make any sense.

Baw2198



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

Have any of you ATA Bashers seen the load out of CID? GRR and FNT (The top to C8 Cities) have a load factor of 85%. CID has had a consistant load factor of 50%. CID has been on the bottom rung of the C8 cities for quite a while now. So why not pull out? Put the aircraft someplace where they will be more usefull and make more money. I'm upset to see CID go, as I know some people from that station. It's the name of the game now adays. $ talks.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Wmupilot

I'm not bashing ATA just maybe C8 which is different. My sister has flown ATA mainline several times and never had a problem. C8 always seemed to be late or have a mechanical quite regularly (not talking ATC delays). I've worked with SF34's for 4 yrs. now, and C8's just seemed to be more problematic.
Anyway, the question would now be, why is CID only at 50%? Bad selling price maybe? I looked it up on the website once and RT to MDW and back was $186.94. If you connected through to somewhere else you didn't get much of break on price like UA or AA would. Unless this price was already discounted that I could understand, the website didn't say either way. Also the connection times weren't the greatest in/out CID. With the last flight of the day at 330 that didn't help things out that much IMO.
Hopefully you could shed some light on this so we could get a better insight into C8.  Smile

Thanks

BAW2198



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

C8's Average load factor on 3/22 and 3/23 to and from CID is 65%. That is bad for a C8 city. That is why they are droping it for MDW. On the same two days from MDW-IND ( not counting the mainline flights) C8 have a 79% load factor. The numbers are speaking loud and clear.

[Edited 2004-03-20 06:43:46]

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2031 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

"C8's Average load factor on 3/22 and 3/23 to and from CID is 65%. That is bad for a C8 city. That is why they are droping it for MDW. On the same two days from MDW-IND ( not counting the mainline flights) C8 have a 79% load factor. The numbers are speaking loud and clear."

No offense, but how many were positive space employees? Load factor doesn't mean squat here. It all has to do with th yeilds that are being produced. IMO (no scientific studies here) FNT, DAY, GRR, TOL, and MSN are the highest yielding stations. Quite a few times I looked at CID flights they were blocked to FunJet Vacations...which means low yield. ATA is hurting for money here and everyone knows it. Does it make sense to run a route with marginal profit or run a route to somewhere who will pay you that will practically fund a quarter of your operation (just guessing..lol)? $2.5 million is a lot of money here and what airline in this day and age would give that up? I sure as heck wouldn't. Heck....in TOL, the corp wanted to do the ground handling for another crappy airline ::cough:: even though the ground agents didn't want it because we know how bad it was. They said that we shouldn't be turning that kind of revenue down. In all seriousness, I don't think that ATA CONNECTION (yes NOT Express <---pet peeve of mine) should have hastily jumped into CID and LEX after FNT and TOL. IMO they should have waited at least 6 months to open up more stations, but that's just me.

I'm sorry CID, but you're a victim of the Indy shuttle again...it's sad and I really hope that our corporate sees something in running it.

Ryan


User currently offlineATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3604 times:

Load factors is a rough indicator toward profitability. They may shuffle a large number of employees but obviosly not enough to hurt the yield and profit. For every employee they do not have to pay to fly WN, the more money they keep in their pocket.

User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

In regards to AA owning CID, I believe they pulled out a while back and restarted the route.

United has a massive following in CID, as you also need to consider they're flying to DEN from there, and occasionally see a BAE 146 on the route..

-n


User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

AA never owned CID. It has always been split between UA and AA. UA had been in CID for 43yrs. up until they pulled out last year Jan. When AA bought TWA, shortly there after mainline AA pulled out since eagle was there. After the AA takeover of TWA, a lot of eagle flights were being directed through STL, which is an ok airport but the terminal leaves much to be desired and the connections were a pain to make. After AA throttled back ops in STL, the number of flights that direction naturally decreased.
I would have to check the schedules out of CID, but I think there are only 3 or 4 flight daily to STL and about 7 to ORD for eagle. Same amount for united express.

Flyinryan99

You made mention of something interesting. Funjet vacations booked quite a bit of flights out CID? If C8 didn't have the low yield bookings out of CID, do you think that the numbers might of been better yield wise?



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
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