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When Will We Stop Seeing "eyebrow Windows" On 737  
User currently offlinePropilotjw From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 589 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

They took the "eyebrow windows" off the new production 717's and I was wondering if they were going to stop having them on the 737 anytime soon? I have talked to pilots on the MD-80 and 737 and they say that they really dislike them and they spend time trying to find stuff to put up to block the hot sun from coming through. Just wondering.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9436 times:

Last year, Boeing approached to operators about this very topic and the studies were underway to remove them. I believe it will cut over next year to no eyebrow windows on the NG models. They will also offer a Service Bulletin to install blanking plates in those aircraft with existing eyebrows. I don't remember exact dates and more details as I have this at work.


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4513 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

are we talking about those windows above the cockpit?


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineJe89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2362 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9296 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Yes, the windows above the cockpit are called "eyebrow" windows because they look like eyebrows.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9118 times:

Those are the 737's trademark, why remove them now? Those are actually cool looking.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8989 times:

Eyebrow windows are existing from the 707/720/KC135 days...
They then continued to exist in 727 and 737s.
Then in the DC8, you find them too (larger) and the DC9 same size as well.
xxx
They did not bother me at all. Used to pack newspapers inside them.
Even had one shattered in a 707, funny thing.
"Skipper got mad, and hit his fist on it" - is a possible legend on the picture.
xxx
Are you a pilot, yes...? - If not, what bothers you...?
I do not worry about your IFE, so leave that worry to pilots and design engineers.
Airplanes are expensive enough, so why generate a TSO for a few more $$$,$$$.
The "looks" of an airplane is the least important thing for me.
If it flies good and brings revenues to my airline - is my only worry.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8848 times:

I think it would make the 737 look more even more modern without the butt ugly eyebrow windows, It would look more like the 757,767,777 and with the wing-tips they recently added to the 737, I think this plane has many more prodution years left. One more thing, are there any pictures out their with a 737 without eyebrow windows? Thanks, Patches.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8820 times:

As the Skipper says, looks have little to do with it. Most passengers can't tell the diff between a 737 and a 747, let alone care about eyebrow windows.

If the customers (pilots) dislike them, they will go.

BTW I am assuming that they used to be used for navigation?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePropilotjw From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 589 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8541 times:

"Are you a pilot, yes...? - If not, what bothers you...?
I do not worry about your IFE, so leave that worry to pilots and design engineers.
Airplanes are expensive enough, so why generate a TSO for a few more $$$,$$$.
The "looks" of an airplane is the least important thing for me.
If it flies good and brings revenues to my airline - is my only worry."

The reason Boeing stopped with them on the 717 was because not having windows there saves weight and there is also less maintenance when you don't have 4 extra windows. Thank you for your concern Skipper but this thread was only asking IF and/or WHEN Boeing will stop putting them on the 737. There was no comment from me about the looks of the aircraft. I am a pilot. I don't care about inflight entertainment. Removing the windows will save money as well.


User currently offlinePl4nekr4zy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

Those are the 737's trademark
What makes them the 737's trademark? Are you forgetting about the 707, 720, 727, that shared the same basic forward fuselage?

and with the wing-tips they recently added to the 737, I think this plane has many more prodution years left. One more thing, are there any pictures out their with a 737 without eyebrow windows?
Why would the "wing-tips" (they're called winglets Big grin) have anything at all to do with its production future? And there are no real pictures of a 737 minus her eyebrows because there aren't any to take pictures of.

And Propilotjw, take it easy on the Skipper, seems you were a little offended. Insane I agree with what he said about leaving these things up to the design engineers and such. Obviously airplanes are not designed to look cool, but I do think the eyebrow windows look pretty kick-ass...



"Don't forget to bring a towel!"
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

I hope they dont get rid of all of em... if you ask me the 737 looks really good with the eybrows! Oh well, i suppose every great thing on this earth has a begining and an end. And I guess if they gunna go to the trouble of doing it there must be a good enough reason.



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8295 times:

It just goes to show how old a design the 737 really is, NG, winglets or not.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8179 times:

"If it ain't broken, don't fix it." The Russians still fly the Soyuz (ok, the "NG" Soyuz), well over thirty years after it first flew. It's safe and reliable too.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8144 times:
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"It just goes to show how old a design the 737 really is, NG, winglets or not."

Which makes me wonder. Why after all this time, has it become a big enough issue to have the "eyebrow" windows removed?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8143 times:

I think the "Eyebrows" were used for star navigation in the early days but someone can correct me if I am wrong.

I think the windows do look cool but I doubt that I will shed a tear when they go I mean, Looks are not what decides if a plane is ecenomical. To Some the AN-224 is ugly (Honest) yet its the biggest thing out there and does its thing, nobody does not charter the aircraft because it might look ugly to them. In the end all that matters is the money in the bank.

Cutting them out will also save on MX... True and that is another reason why they are going to go.

Skipper... You punched out a window????

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7945 times:

More info from the Boeing source.....the eyebrow windows were a hold-out from the 707/727 design and were originally intended for forward vision during a turn. Boeing's contention is that with TCAS technology and the recent 717 removal, that they may no longer be necessary, but wanted operator/pilot imput before proceeding. The production cut-in for no eyebrows was planned for the 3rd quarter this year. Eyebrow windows last about 7-9 years or 5000 hours and cost from $1800-2500 a piece. Weight savings would be approx. 25 pounds. I have not heard any more information whether this proposal will actually happen.


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7850 times:

It just goes to show how old a design the 737 really is, NG, winglets or not.

Or how proven a design is.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7797 times:

Using the "old design" argument for the 737NG is like saying the A330 is just a slightly upgraded A300...

Yes, it is a tube with wings, but so are most planes from the DC-3 to the 7E7.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7763 times:

Bo(e)ingGoingGone: The most perfect nose known to date 707/727/737. I think many people will always still see the 737-100 as 'the little pig' as it was known. The eyebrows gave the intelligent 'face' on all three types.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7721 times:

731 was also known as "Fat Albert". Cute.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineYossarian From Zambia, joined May 2001, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7668 times:

Having flown the DC9 quite a bit, I can say that I personally found the eyebrow windows very useful in a turn. TCAS may make that redundant but a good lookout is always a good thing.

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7628 times:

Actually, the 707 does not share the same nose as the 727/737 (which are identical. The only common part from the 707 to the smaller birds is the front windscreen--even the eyebrows and other cockpit windows on the crown are slightly different. Other than the front 'windows'--there are no other common external parts.

User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7546 times:

I think it was Lufthansa that first termed the 737 as 'little pig', but I also think they were the actual world-wide launch customer for the type.

Can someone download an artists impression of a 737 without its eyebrows? It would look like it had been to a bad party!


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

The Eyebrow windows on the 737s are very hard to look through, they make you fee like you are looking through a magnifying glass at some point. It made me feel kinda weird looking through those windows.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

If you go to Boeing's media center and click on the topic "737 Still Outsells All Boeing Products" (or the such)----there is the rendering of the 737 without the eyebrows.

User currently offlinePl4nekr4zy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

Are you forgetting about the 707, 720, 727, that shared the same basic forward fuselage? - Me

Actually, the 707 does not share the same nose as the 727/737 (which are identical. The only common part from the 707 to the smaller birds is the front windscreen--even the eyebrows and other cockpit windows on the crown are slightly different. Other than the front 'windows'--there are no other common external parts. - Greg

I should have been more clear in my first post, I meant they all share the same basic nose/cockpit features and top fuselage. The 727/737 has a smaller lower fuselage section because they weren't meant to carry as much cargo or something.




"Don't forget to bring a towel!"
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