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Southwest-not A Single Red-eye?  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9249 times:

For an airline that seems to pride themselves on an extreme amount of aircraft utilization, I noticed in a Southwest timetable that they do not run a single red-eye flight. Obviously, this is a departure from the jetBlue method of having every plane in the air all night, to keep the planes earning revenue around the clock, and to save on parking fees. Could somebody please enlighten me on why Southwest chooses not to run a single red-eye flight?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSouthwestMDW From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9196 times:

In June of 2003 I was on a scheduled Southwest red-eye.

Southwest Airlines flight 2255
Phoenix-Chicago
Departs: 8:10pm
Arrives: 12:20am

According to their Summer Timetable.


User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9169 times:

What routes would they fly them on? BWI-LAX that is only 2x day anyway.
Red-eyes are great but if you don't have high enough loads it is just more wear and tear on an aircraft. (a problem that is going to sneak up on Jetblue, those planes are going to very expensive to maintain very soon)

-COTXDFW777AA





Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

I always thought a red eye flight flew all night and arrived the next morning....

User currently offlineUpsmd11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 815 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9160 times:
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I would say that flight #2255 is not a true red-eye. A red-eye is one where you arrive and the sun is already coming up. Arriving in Chicago at 12:20am would still give you time to sleep in the Central Time Zone and wake up refreshed. What do others think?

John


User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9124 times:

I agree. This can't be a true red eye flight

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9115 times:

SouthwestMDW-I was referring to a flight that you got on at night, and got off the next morning, and your only chance to sleep was on the plane. Every single 737 that Southwest has RON's somewhere, and it seems like jetBlue doesn't have a single A-320 that RON's (although it's not true, obviously)


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

and it seems like jetBlue doesn't have a single A-320 that RON's (although it's not true, obviously)

It's not true, but a lot of planes are flying around on JetBlue for red-eyes:

LGB-JFK (1)
SAN-JFK (1)
ONT-JFK (1)
SMF-JFK (1)
OAK-JFK (1)
SJC-JFK (1) beginning in June
DEN-JFK (1)
SEA-JFK (1)
SLC-JFK (1)
LAS-JFK (2)
DEN-BOS (1)
LGB-BOS (1)
OAK-BOS (1) beginning in May
SMF-IAD (1) beginning in May
OAK-IAD (1)
LGB-IAD (1)
LGB-FLL (1)

So that's 18 red-eyes as on mid-June, and 19 if you include a 2:55am departure from SJU to JFK. But 19 planes flying around is not even half of JetBlue's fleet. But I guess it's pretty good to do as many planes get to rest while some are still out there taking in revenue.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9011 times:

"I noticed in a Southwest timetable..."

On the Internet?

Flying during the night would be very much off-peak, therefore requiring incentives - i.e. low to very low prices - to make people fly. This would mean that yields on such flights would be low to very low. Would it really be worth it? Perhaps on long transcontinental flights, but otherwise probably not. Yes, it would increase aircraft utilisation, but if you have to substantially reduce your fares to attract passengers, then it probably would not be worth it. And then you have to have additional costs, like more maintainence...



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8989 times:

I think I read on here once that the reason for that was because WN's planes are so utilized during the day, more so than most carriers that the fleet needs the night to rest and get proper maintenance checkups.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8929 times:
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Pe@rson:

Attitudes to red-eyes are abit different here in the US. For business people, if you have to get from LAX to NYC for a meeting, the easiest way is often a red-eye.

Any flight that leaves the West Coast in the morning doesn't arrive on the East Coast until much of the day is over.

TWA used to do terrific business with their coast to coast red-eyes, JetBlue does great with theirs, and little Frontier is getting in on the act.

In the case of Frontier, it's not even coast to coast, but DEN/BWI and DEN/LGA. Those flights are regularly sold out. They are starting a coast to coast with LAX/PHL.

They even have week-end red-eyes DEN/CUN which also do very, very well.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8927 times:

Pe@rson-Southwest still prints timetables, and I flew over the weekend (ISP-PHL-RDU-IAD-PHL-ISP, with RDU-IAD-PHL on UA, and the rest on US) and the Southwest counter is right next to the US Airways counter at ISP, so I picked a timetable up there...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4513 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8888 times:

Red-eyes are great but if you don't have high enough loads it is just more wear and tear on an aircraft

COTx why is this the case? What difference does it make what time of day it is to a plane?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8838 times:

S12PPL,

Your right, a true red eye is a flight that leaves in the evening and arrives the next morning. I have flown red eyes from JFK-GRU. That is a true red eye. WN will not fly them because they probably won't fill them and make money.


User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8805 times:

COTx why is this the case? What difference does it make what time of day it is to a plane?

I presume he meant that running red-eyes in addition to daytime flights puts more wear and tear on the airframe, which it does, of course. However it doesn't matter whether or not these flights are at night. The point is that it is just additional hours of service that otherwise would not be on the airframe.

-WGW2707



User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

I was on a red-eye one time, it was a Continental Airlines flight LAS-CLE... on a 757... left LAS at about 1:15 AM and arrived at CLE at about 7:30 AM. Argh! They're still running CO 580, it's now a 737-900 that departs LAS at 12:05 AM and arrives CLE at 6:56 AM.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

There are some specific reasons WN doesn't schedule redeyes.

WN services the aircraft minimally during the workday, by the end of the day many of us have experienced a NASTY lav on a WN 737.

Also, WN schedules whatever 8 hour maintenance cycles they can on airframes overnight.

There was a good post on this once, I wish I could find it.

N


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8719 times:

I also read somewhere that WN sometimes flies charters in the middle of the night (they rarely do them during the day).


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8695 times:

Gigneil is right, plus WN flies a lot of short flights, they don't have flights from LAX-JFK and the like. So they couldn't really have a true red eye. I don't think they care, they are making mucho dinero with their current business model.

User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8616 times:

WN is one of, if not the, biggest charter operator for domestic runs for the United States Dept of Defense. There was a running joke that they were boarding more passengers at Fort Hood's Robert Gray Army Airfield than they did out of their station at Corpus Christi. These military charters invariably run between midnight and 5 am so as not to interfere with their daily scheduled flights.

Southwest runs a whole bunch of Las Vegas charters too.


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8598 times:

1) Red-eyes are only for long distance, west to east flights
2) WN's non-hub network doesn't make them as necessary as repositioning flights on the east coast for morning service.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8496 times:

Obviously, this is a departure from the jetBlue method of having every plane in the air all night, to keep the planes earning revenue around the clock, and to save on parking fees.

A departure from the jetBlue method? Haha... WN is a good 3 decades older than B9, they have their own method. Since B9 is the new kid on the block, if anyone is departing from anyone, jetBlue is the departure from the LCC norm.

I think Pearson, Gigneil, and TxAgKuwait have pretty much nailed it on the head why Southwest do not fly red-eyes.


User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8412 times:
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For the record, Southwest does fly red-eye charters...a few months ago, a military charter was flown DAL-EWR... it left Dallas at 12:30am and arrived Newark around 5:00am

JBLU


User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8395 times:

I'm surprised that WN/LUV, don't do more,"Midnight Flyer" specials.
This was started by PSA and was successfully it did attract
sometimes,"problem child passengers",because of the
reduced price, that normally don't fly.





Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8352 times:

Oh, and lest we forget, Southwest didn't have just a whole lot of success back in the early 80s with some Las Vegas red eyes.

They had one that came out of Las Vegas, bound for Houston Hobby, at about 2...maybe 2:15 am. Arrival in Houston was around 6:15 although it almost always got in early.

Every time I rode it there were between 5 and 14 people on the airplane.



25 Sprxflyswa : TxAgKuwait, From what I gather from folks who worked in LAS, that flight was for freight/mail movement more than for pax convenience. But I do wish w
26 InnocuousFox : "From what I gather from folks who worked in LAS, that flight was for freight/mail movement more than for pax convenience." Also looks like a simple r
27 Hz747300 : I don't know if they still do it, but when I had stayed with my uncle in Roanoke, TX, Southwest jets would do touch-and-go's at Alliance airport in Ft
28 Pe@rson : Mariner - yeah, I understand the flights which leave the west coast very late at night and arrive in the east in the early morning. I did actually say
29 ChiGB1973 : I am not sure that it is an indusrty standard or our fearless leaders at TZ, but they define red-eye as: Flights operating between the hours of 2300-0
30 Bacxboys : Another airline we often forget that has Red-eyes and outside the states is Qantas. I recently flew PER-MEL left Per at 2250 and arrived Mel AT 0525 a
31 Post contains images AirframeAS : I would say that flight #2255 is not a true red-eye. A red-eye is one where you arrive and the sun is already coming up. Arriving in Chicago at 12:20a
32 Boeing757/767 : Don't forget Canada has a good number of red-eyes.
33 LTBEWR : Don't forget to consider that WN does few, if any, true non-stop/same plane transcons which are the most appropiate use of 'red-eyes', although that c
34 Scottb : I think LTBEWR is on the mark here; historically, as a primarily short-haul carrier, Southwest has had few routes which would work well as red-eyes. A
35 Jayspilot : red eye's would work on routes such as LAS-ALB, BDL and MHT. i could see them throwing this frequency into the schedule or to another city they decide
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