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2 Capts. Flying Together, Common?  
User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

In the pic below, if you enlarge it, it looks as though both pilots have 4 stripes. Is it common for two Captains to fly together, or is the one in thr right seat an instructor training a new Capt.?



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Photo © Carlo Bertolini




thanks for the answer, I was just curious.


Life is better when you surf.
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Good thread!

Well, two reasons...first, and this one's interesting...

This photo you post is of an ex-TWA Mad Dog...those two Captains are both ex-TWA....for awhile, and for a little bit longer, the TWA guys stuck to their own MD-80's, and the AA dudes to theirs...different a/c specs, procedures, etc etc...but same paint scheme (had a TWA sticker though). The F/O's who SHOULD be flying these jets have been long since furlughed (I know as my best friend's dad is one of those unlucky ones furloughed off of the right seat here). So basically, AA paid TWO Captains to fly this thing, almost doubling their expenses for the second crewmember. Soon all will be AA MD's, so the Capts will be flying with other AA guys...maybe a little bit of tension in those cockpits!

But.....in "normal" situations, you'll see two Captains on an IOE, or Initial Operating Experience, say when a new Captain in the jet is being checked out.....so the Line Check Airman will occupy the F/O seat, and the fresh, sparkling new Capt will be in his new seat.

Hope that helps!  Big thumbs up

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineBOEING747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

I was on Pace Air from MCO to YYZ and we had two captains on the flight, no first officer just two captains. The F/As make a joke saying how it was going to get us home quicker.

User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Hey thanks guys, Id heard about this happening and thought that might have been the case. Thanks for your help!

Suppose they ever do rock paper scissors or something for who gets what seat in the flight deck?  Laugh out loud



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineSV777KiloAlpha From Saudi Arabia, joined Dec 2003, 267 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

After 9/11, the FAA forced some international airlines to have two captains at the controls whenever they are in the US airspace.

 Big grin
HZ-AKA




PPL since 2006
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2266 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

I don't think the tension issue is so big... right now in STL we have TWA captains flying with AA first officers on the AA equipment. They're just like all other pilots and generally the crew dynamic is unchanged. It's nice to have them onboard as we get to hear fresh stories and here the about the legacy that is TWA. I rather enjoy it.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Suppose they ever do rock paper scissors or something for who gets what seat in the flight deck?

So whoever calls "shotgun" first gets the F/O seat?  Big thumbs up Less work for those who'd like to slack  Big grin

Naw, like I said, the subject of the IOE will occupy his new seat...so Capt in his new Capt seat...the Check Airman can fly either. I'd imagine for those TWA Capts, they'd be assigned the seat by senority? Anyone care to chime in?

Again, good thread UALpilot Big grin

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineBig777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Once, I remembered I was visiting the cockpit before the flight to RFD from ORD on McClain 727 and same day return to ORD. I went to the cockpit and I noticed captain was before flew to RFD and he was seating on F/O seat. I bet they are two captains.

Big777jet




User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2425 times:

Correct, quite common to have two captains together...
After all, captains can be first officers, why not...
Many scenarios are possible...
xxx
There may be a check-captain in the right seat, giving training to the other.
That is quite common with all airlines.
xxx
Reserve crewmembers. First officer is calling sick.
Crew desk calls reserve first officers, but none available, so they get a captain.
I am a management pilot (captain) as instructor. I often replace first officers.
xxx
Many of our 747 first officers were captain 737, they continue wearing 4 stripes.
All our captains AND first officers are qualified as captain in 747 (same qualification)
So you may also see a first officer in the left seat with us. They are captain qualified in the 747.
We just "trade seats", the captain decides "who flies left seat" going out and coming back...
xxx
Now were are getting these 747-400s on the line. I will not fly them.
The normal crew complement is 2 captains + 1 first officer. That is because of length of sectors.
Both captains will occupy pilot seats for takeoff and landing.
The first officer will only occupy a pilot seat in cruise. They are... "cruise first officers".
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2383 times:

Skipper, I had heard of these "cruise" people before for the A340. Doesn't life get boring for them? No takeoffs or landings apart from a few each month to keep your qualification. Or is it considered a rite of passage, like going from F/O to Captain.

How long do they have to do that before starting to make serious ass-shaped indentations in one of the two front seats?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2309 times:

Like Skipper said, it's really not that uncommon and can happen for any number of reasons.

Could be a Check Ride...
Could be the F/O called in sick, and a Capt was the replacement.
Could be the Capts final flight and he asked his buddy to F/O for him....
Could be a new Capt getting some training....



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineERfly From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2244 times:

Other thing it could be is a displaced captain. Beacause of all the furloughs, the guy in the right seat could have been a captain. However, because of furloughs and downsizing, it could be the only position he could hold is MD-80 F/O. The thinking is though, once a captain, always a captain. They won't take away your stripes, but you don't get the scambled eggs on your hat. It is very common sight now. If you don't believe me, it's happening a lot at US Airways. Just walk through PHL, PIT or CLT. You'll see plenty.

It must be hard to go from Captain to F/O, but at least they're still flying.


User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2147 times:

As an aside, don't forget in the original Airport movie you had two captains flying the plane. Dean Martin was in the co-pilot's seat on the flight to check out the other captain. According to the movie captains (at fictitous Trans Global) were checked out every six months.

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2108 times:

. . . and so they got to arguing seniority and forgot to put the gear down!

At at least one airline (US) almost everyone who still has a job wears four stripes. The junior guy on the property has more than fifteen years seniority.





Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCO2BGR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 558 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2057 times:

When I flew CO to MXP during break the IRO "International reserve officer" or second first officer for legs over 8 hours was a displaced captain so he wore 4 stripes but no branches on his hat. That is the most likely scenario at the US airlines today.


There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
User currently offlineN323er From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

Training. That is why they are two CA's the first three months (depending on airline procedures)

RYAN AIRTRAN(BWIOPS)



RYAN SCAIFE
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

They won't take away your stripes, but you don't get the scambled eggs on your hat. It is very common sight now.

Correct...displacement is a very common thing, or a 737 Capt going to 76ER F/O for example....you can still wear the stripes on your coat, but the wings, epaulets, and cap all have to be F/O again...I often see a 4-striper Delta guy walking through a terminal, and upon getting closer, see that he has F/O wings or a cap...some just choose to take the extra stripe off and look like a regular joe F/O. There's a few stories behind those! And as SlamClick said, there's alot of former Capts on property...and at least with DL, (until recently) there were just a few ex-Captains on the furlough list (those very junior DL Express Capts, like my dad)

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineNORTHSEATIGER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

On our North sea Helicopters we regularly have 2 captains flying together I was just commenting today on the fact that at least 1/4 of the flights had 2 captains on.


T's And P's look good....Rotate
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