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AA: No Service Between ORD And JFK?!  
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Why does AA (or UA for that matter) not serve ORD-JFK? Seems like an obvious route, let alone a route that could easily be filled by B6. They have lots of service from ORD-LGA and ORD-EWR but nothing to JFK. Only a lone daily DL CRJ operates ORD-JFK.


E pur si muove -Galileo
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1064 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

It has to do with the fact that both UA and AA have each have about 19 flights a day from LGA not to mention the flights they have from EWR as well as CO's flights from EWR. Also ORD is a very O&D market and LGA is much easier to get to from NYC. ORD also has enough international traffic that they don't necessarily need the connections at JFK.

User currently offlineSebwhite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

AA is primarily for European connections which ORD already have enough of anyway. Carribean destinations are more easily reached through MIA or SJU. JFK as a destination in itself is further from Manhattan than Laguardia, which gets tons of ORD service. DL feeds international flights with its CRJ. Unless your destination is Long Island, JFK isn't really useful. (AA used to fly ORD-ISP with F100s, unless WN won the battle for Islip!)

User currently offlineLUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Don't worry. If JetBlue starts flights to ORD or even MDW in the near future, AA will definitely start service to ORD from JFK. Doubtful if United will ever restart service there again.

LUV4JFK
 Big thumbs up



John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

"Unless your destination is Long Island, JFK isn't really useful."

True, but B6 has proven otherwise. It seems to me an obvious market for AA to 1) provide additional connections to Europe and the Caribbean, perhaps freeing up seats on ORD/MIA for higher yield pax and 2) to preemptively strike B6.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

ORD-NYC is primarily a business market, and since LGA is somewhat more convienient to Manhatten, LGA is the preferred choice for business travelers. JFK serves more long haul markets (transcons and europe). All of those market can be had non stop from ORD. This would not make JFK very useful for O/D traffic from ORD. If is a note though AA did operate JFKORD around 95 if I remember correctly with an MD11. This was primarily for repositioning reasons and was short lived and did not perform well from a loadfactor/revenue perspective

User currently offlineAAJAXFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5696 times:

True, but B6 has proven otherwise.

They've proven people will travel a little further ground-wise to save money.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

The truth is that almost all domestic passengers to the NYC area prefer LGA (or EWR) due to logistics and convenience - most passengers flying between NYC and Chicago are O&D (huge market) and those connecting in ORD to go on to other flights still prefer beginning/ending their journey at LGA. As correctly stated above, there is no real reason to offer a JFK flight for connections, as AA has more flights to Europe out of ORD than JFK (no extra destinations) and service to the carib is easier via a MIA or SJU connection.

Over the years, both UA and AA (and TW, PA and DL for connection purposes) have offered one or two flights per day between ORD and JFK, with everything from DC10 and DC8 Super 60s to 737s and MD80s, all with no real success - much of those flights had to with posiitoning aircraft. In general, there is very little domestic traffic, even to/from hubs, at JFK.

JetBlue is something else, of course, if JetBlue would open a JFK=ORD flight with attractive fares, it would fill up the planes.......in general, pax go to JFK because of JetBlue and its combination of fares/service, not because the pax prefer using JFK over LGA.


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Though its probably a stupid assumption to make, I thought they do operate ORD-JFK. Remember "Home Alone 2" with MacCauley Culkin as Kevin? Kevin boarded an American 762 going from ORD-JFK, while his family boarded another AA 762 from ORD-MIA. That evidence probably ain't plausible though. Movies make up pretty much any damn thing they want to about airplanes. In Home Alone 1, Kevin's mother returned from Paris to the United States on a 752! Should have been a DC-10 or a 762ER or 763ER. AA 752s are only just starting to make their premier in Europe, almost 14 years later since this 1990 film.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

Actually, in home alone 2, the plane went to LGA, not JFK. You can tell because of the view of Manhattan from the terminal.

I've always found it strange that neither UA or AA offers at least one flight to JFK from ORD. I guess they figure that if at least one NYC airport is served from each of their hubs, then that's fine, but I would think that UA would want to have service to DEN and ORD and AA would want to have service to ORD since they are some of the largest hubs for the airlines and it's not like JFK has no people living nearby. I know that's why CO started their JFK-IAH service, to give those in Queens, Brooklyn, and LI a choice to use JFK instead of LGA and EWR.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

On the other hand, DL offers about 8 daily roundtrips between ATL and JFK, and between those two airports, there's a similar wash in terms of European connections (with the exception of SVO, ATH, IST, VCE, and other destinations also easily reached through CDG on AF).

In any case, I can guarantee that the instant B6 goes into ORD-JFK, AA will all of a sudden find enough demand to throw in multiple roundtrips.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

I know the scene, problem is it was not filmed at JFK, nor LGA, rather in Long Island City in Queens.

The Skyline was VERY close to the windows in that scene, it was a film studio known as Silver Cup (not a airport).

Be careful with movies, I was at Newark airport the night they filmed the movie "Quick Change" with Bill Murray, they were pretending it was JFK.

Then last Summer I was driving home from Princeton when I stopped by an Ice cream place on Route 33 in Milstone Twp I like to go to sometimes, the girls from Sex and the City were there filming a episode of the hit HBO show.

When it aired I was disappointed to see that they were pretending my ice cream place (Cream me Freeze) was on Long Island in the Hamptons when in reality it's almost 100 miles away in Monmouth County New Jersey.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

Never, NEVER ever believe what you see in the movies or TV. I saw a show once where a flight leaves from Atlanta to Tokyo non-stop on a 727. Get real!

LUV4JFK
 Big thumbs up



John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
User currently offlineB777fa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

American did have plans to start up JFK-ORD pre 9/11 using 757s..I think it was 2/3 times daily, the flights were even in Sabre and then we all know what happened next......Since 9/11 nothing has ever been mentioned about trying to start the route up again....maybe in the future.

User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

I'm sure AA notices this problem. AA, given their presence at JFK and ORD, you would expect would fly to Chicago from JFK. But with LGA, what's to complain about? You still go to New York? Seriously, though, I have no doubt AA will start ORD-JFK...that route is more likely than any other at this point. AA was going to start so many routes had it not been for 9/11. If not for 9/11, we might see AA at AMS.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

It's not just Chicago Ohare, there are loads of major Domestic hubs/cities with little to no service from JFK but do have service to LGA or EWR.

LGA is JFK's Domestic Terminal for flights within the 1,500 perimeter (save Denver), JFK handles the beyond perimeter and International flights.

LGA and EWR have a much higher percentage of business travelers than JFK, the main Business Districts in the tri-State area are Mid-town Manhattan, Lower Manhattan, Northern New Jersey, Central New Jersey Princeton route 1 corridor.

There is no major corporations based in Queens or Brooklyn, and few out on Long Island. Business travelers are heading to Manhattan and Northern New Jersey, so they cater to those clients.

B6 is attracting some corporate accounts but they are an overwhelmingly leisure oriented airline, which is why they concentrate on Florida and California from JFK over places such as Chicago, Boston, Washington DC etc which are business Centers.

When B6 starts taking delivery of their ERJ-190s they are going to close the gap between JFK and EWR and LGA with regards to Domestic routes of 1,500 miles or less, however they will not be attracting business travelers away from LGA instead attracting leisure travelers to JFK.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

LGA must be a lot cheaper than JFK...that's probably why we don't see many domestic hubs flying to and from it. JFK is the LHR of the United States! That's how I saw it when I was there! Tons of jetliners, the big, the medium, and the small, and so many different aircraft. There must not be a whole lot of room at JFK now since Delta is adding so many flights there.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

"LGA must be a lot cheaper than JFK...that's probably why we don't see many domestic hubs flying to and from it."

The Port Authority controls EWR, LGA, JFK, Teterboro.

They keep the fees as equal as possible.

"There must not be a whole lot of room at JFK now since Delta is adding so many flights there."

They're not adding that many, 2 flights each to something like 5 new destinations. Also they are dropping Phoenix.

LHR eclipses JFK by a wide margin in terms of traffic, close LGA and maybe JFK catches up.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

"they will not be attracting business travelers away from LGA instead attracting leisure travelers to JFK.
"

I think it will be quite the opposite. B6 will continue to attract leisure travelers but will be sucking more and more business travelers away from LGA, and especially EWR (which is about equidistant from downtown NYC).



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5115 times:

"B6 will continue to attract leisure travelers but will be sucking more and more business travelers away from LGA, and especially EWR (which is about equidistant from downtown NYC)."

They are not going to suck business travelers away with flights to with flights to Florida or Red eyes to the West Coast.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Thats surprising!
NW has two flights between DTW-JFK and one between MSP-JFK
all operated with the DC9. (it was once a A319)
Its a unique station it only sees the 747-400 to NRT and 3 DC9's a day.
LGA gets 9 flights to DTW
6 to MSP
3 to MEM
1 to MKE



User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

US Airways does not even fly to JFK anymore..


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFLYGUY1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

DL will be adding around 35 new flights this summer, including RJ's of course. With more expansion from them, and assuming Jetblue adds more short range service, the airport will definitely attract more short range domestic traffic. Overall, there will be a lot of new service at JFK this summer.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Most of the new DL flights are further than 1,500 miles, correct?.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFLYGUY1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Most of the new DL flights are further than 1,500 miles, correct?.
Pretty much all of the mainline flights are, excluding RSW. The RJ service is all within 1500 miles (SAV, GSO, CAE, etc)



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
25 Jetbluefan1 : As soon as JetBlue starts service (probably '06, I would think), AA will *magically* find a need to start service to JFK from ORD. JetBluefan1
26 Ord777 : Two years ago, actually, two years ago exactly today, I flew from JFK to ORD on a United 757. The only flight of the day. I remember thinking how unus
27 STT757 : "I flew from JFK to ORD on a United 757. The only flight of the day. I remember thinking how unusual that was. " Had to be a Saturday, UAL only flew o
28 Rjpieces : I remember that flight. It was later switched to an A320 IIRC and yes, Saturday only.
29 PROSA : Be careful with movies, I was at Newark airport the night they filmed the movie "Quick Change" with Bill Murray, they were pretending it was JFK. Spea
30 Ord777 : N, actually the JFK to ORD flight I was on was on a Sunday evening. The flight was on March 24th, 2001 (so that would be 2 years from tomorrow) and it
31 Ckfred : It would make sense for AA to fly 2 or 3 flights each way between ORD and JFK. There are several destinations that are flown solely out of JFK, includ
32 Post contains images LUV4JFK : I've always thought that they could serve JFK-ORD with American Eagle. Delta's using Comair and ASA 5 times a day for their ATL flights from JFK. Even
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