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Winglets On CO 737 NG & 757's  
User currently offlineRohan737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Heard a rumor today that Continental Airlines is going to install winglets on the 737 NG & 757-300's to improve their efficieny. I thought that winglets were not an option on 757's. Anyone else heard this rumor about CO and the winglet installation.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEmmett99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Unless they got someone else to design and build them I don't think they will be on the 757. I'm fairly certain we didn't design them for the 757. Of course, I've been wrong before.

User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Well i wish they would, I think that it would help with the fuel costs and performance, it also looks great. Just look at teh Copa 737NG's. As for the 757 dont think so, but it would be cool.

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CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Oh! I was also wondering if anyone knew if the Winglets requiered any extra training for the pilots??? Thanks for whoever can help out with this ?



CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

All talk of winglets on the 757 died when Boeing ended the BBJ3 study, back in late 1998.


My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineGoldentail From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 75 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4645 times:

Winglets on any of CO aircraft is pure rumor.






"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

I think that [winglets] would help with the fuel costs and performance.

They most certainly would...but please don't get me started on winglets!  Laugh out loud

I was also wondering if anyone knew if the winglets require any extra training for the pilots.

They don't require extra training because they don't significantly alter the flying characteristics of the aircraft, or anything concerning piloting.

Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

BW for the 757 isn't a bad idea with all the 75's goin' translatlantic these days.

User currently offlineBtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
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Don't aviation partners offer winglets? I know I read somewhere they were producing them for the 747 (a taller more efficient winglet) and 737 classic.

Found this:

http://www.forrelease.com/D20030609/sfm137.P2.06092003172206.09149.html




146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Hmm, tried to direct link that address, didn't work.

Anyways, looks as though everything in the Boeing line exept the DC-10/MD-11 is being studied. Or even applied as this 733 with winglets shows.
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User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

What gests me is why it took Airbus and particularly Boeing soooo long to work out that winglets make a plane fly further. Everyone used to incorporate them in paper aeroplanes at school! I think they are now the airliner equivalent of the old 'go faster stripes' of Essex fame.

User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Goldentail wrote:
Winglets on any of CO aircraft is pure rumor.
------------------

 Smile Ok so it says `...Express'... but still :  Smile


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` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineKLM777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Winglets are not always more efficient. The advantage of them is that the induced drag is being reduced. Induced drag are the vortexes because of air flowing from underneath the wing (high pressure) around the wingtips to the upper side of the wing (low pressure). Winglets prevent most of this airflow.

Now the disadvantage is that they weigh a couple hundreds of kilos. And not only that, this weight is at the most uneconomical spot of the aircraft: the edge of the wings. This requires the structure as a whole, and particular the wing and wing attachment to the fuselage, to be reinforced to cope with the bending moment.

Whether to add winglets to the aircraft is a tradeoff between the advantages and the disadvantages. Some wings are efficient enough without winglets, adding winglets could still increase efficiency, but the weight of the winglets and extra structure would outweigh this increase in efficiency.

Take for example the wing of the 777. It is long and at the end it's relatively small (high aspect ratio [span*span/standard mean chord]), therefore reducing induced drag to a minimum. Winglets are not advantageous here. I'm not 100% sure about the 757, but I think I think it has a relatively high aspect ratio too. Apart from that, the aircraft is not build to carry winglets (would be possible though I guess).

Kind regards,

Jeroen



Every landing is a controlled crash
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

KLM777:
Well, Boeing is raking their wingtips where they aren't wingletting them. Be interesting if raked tips will one day become a retrofit on the 777.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineFlyingDoctorWu From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

How about the TU-204- the 757ski



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Christopher Wu


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Replacing the wingtip with a winglet on a 737NG is not horribly difficult, at least according to a Boeing publication that I read several years ago.

If the price of jet fuel remains high, I think almost every operator of the 737NG will look at the retrofit kits. Even Southwest is now taking delivery of 737NGs with winglets, and they to buy planes with fewer options that the legacy carriers.

I haven't heard of a Boeing-designed winglet to retrofit to the 757, but I know that Pan Am has installed winglets on its 727s. So, it wouldn't surprise me if someone did it within the next few years.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Aviationpartners Boeing is working on potential winglets for 757 and 767 aircraft FYI - read the latest Airliners...

-g



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

KLM777,

I'm nitpicking a little, but preventing wingtip vortices from making it all the way around the tips of the wings isn't the only thing that winglets do. Rather than explaining it yet again, check out my reply (# 6) to this other thread here. I know, I always refer back to that post, but I can't be bothered to type it all again.

You're right that tradeoffs must be made when considering incorporating winglets into an aircraft design. The weight is the main negative, and so various things must be factored in to see if it's really worth adding them. Raked wingtips and increased AR (aspect ratio) also help reduce induced drag, and in some cases those methods are better to use, in some cases they're not.

Cheers,
QantasA332

EDIT: I cleaned up the formatting...

[Edited 2004-03-25 22:47:41]

User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Why doesn't Delta put winglets on their 738s? Though they are low on cash...it would save money on fuel. And CO, given as many 737NGs as they have, would benefit greatly by adding winglets...hate to break to ya, but the 757 never had winglets, and never will for two reasons: 1, someone already said Boeing ended their studies of this in 1998, and 2, the 757 is no longer being produced after 2004, have all the remaining 757s to be built been built? Does anyone know?


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineIahcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3452 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3455 times:
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The main reason that kept CO from adding winglets to it's 738s right from the getgo was the manufacturer's pricing for their product. The cost/benefit numbers just weren't right at the time. Now however ....... Well, we will just have to wait and see.


Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 3325 times:

I just found the following from here, under "news." It simply confirms that Aviation Partners Boeing are certainly looking into 757/767 winglets. Enjoy...

Launch Customer Opportunity for Boeing 757-200 and 767-300ER Blended Winglet Fleet Upgrade

Who will be the first to fly Aviation Partners Boeing Performance Enhancing Systems?..."We're looking for a customer to partner with in the certification and launch of 757-200 and 767-300ER Blended Winglet Programs," says Aviation Partners Boeing CEO Mike Marino..."[Blended winglet] technology is particularly well suited to 757 and 767 series applications." Aviation Partners Boeing forecasts a potential Blended Winglet upgrade market for some 850 Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce powered 757-200 and over 400 767-300ERs in both passenger and freight configuration.


Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently offlineGoldentail From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 75 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Voodoo......

The post was asking about winglets on B737NG or on B757, not about RJ's at Expressjet.

Sorry...my answer stands firm. No winglets for mainline CO jets are planned.






"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
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