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Jets To Run On Soya Bean Oil!  
User currently offlineLeviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Passenger jets to run on soya power
From correspondents in Paris
March 25, 2004

AMERICAN biochemists want to power airplanes with soya oil to help reduce consumption of petroleum fuels that are driving global warming, New Scientist says.

By adding a certain amount of soya oil to jet fuel, planes will slow the increase in emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the principal culprit for the greenhouse effect.

A meeting of the American Chemical Society in Anaheim, California, next week will be told how this can be done, the British weekly says in next Saturday's issue.

The C02 in fossil fuels - oil and its derivatives, as well as gas and coal - has been stored underground for millions of years. So when the fuel is burnt, the CO2 adds to atmospheric pollution.

Biofuels such as soya, though, are "carbon neutral" because they come from a recent, overground source.

When the plants grow, they suck CO2 out of the atmosphere; that CO2 is then released when the fuel is burnt, and so the overall pollution total is not increased.

If soya fuel takes flight, the stench of kerosene that pervades airports today might be replaced by a more welcoming odour.

"It might make airports smell like a Thai restaurant," New Scientist quips.

Commercial air traffic has been identified as one of the fastest-growing sources of CO2 pollution, mainly because jet fuel is usually untaxed and there are no requirements on fuel efficiency or carbon output.

A top panel on environmental commission warned in 2002 that air travel could account for nearly three-quarters of Britain's greenhouse-gas emissions by the middle of the century.

Agence France-Presse


http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9070203^13762,00.html

I find this rather odd, even if it is possible. Will we ever see soya-powered jets in the future ?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTheFLCowboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

So does that mean if we can put pop-corn in the engine and it will get popped like that movie with the laser beam going into the house?

Supposedly its not too far off. I know there is some kind of additvie you can put in vegetable oil and then can use it to fuel a diesel engine. I just wonder how adaptive the airlines would be to it. If you remember, they did some kind of testing with a fuel additive that would turn to gel in a crash. The idea was that if the fuel went to gel it wouldnt burn. However, the airlines wern't so inclined to pay the extra costs of adding the mixture to their fuel.

If they make it cost effective enough and can prove it has the same burning capabilites as Jet-A, as in same properties at altitude and that sort of thing, then I don't see why not.

MD



A318, A320, A332, A333, B1900, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B737, B738, B772, CR1, CR2, CR7, CR9, MD80, MD81, MD82, MD8
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Already there are expirmental cars with diesel engines that use processed soy and other vegitable oil mixtures in Europe and the US. I believe that a couple of buses in a US National Park are using that fuel for enviroment reasons. For years there have been some homebuilt conversions of diesel cars in the US where they use old fast food fryer oil with other chemicals & some diesel fuel blends. Kerosine, jet fuel and diesel fuel are all very similar levels of petrolium products. It would not be improbable to have a jet fuel with a 10-30% mix of soy or other vegetable oils. Obiously this could have a huge effect on the enviorment especially if could be use on jet a/c and many heavy trucks and obiously would help deal with the exploding demand for oil at the same time of declining sources.

User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Let's just hope it doesn't add to the cost of fuel like Ethanol does!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

LTBEWR,
one of those experimental cars actually raced in last years Le Mans 24 hour race. Naturally, it didn't finished in the top position, but I think it actually made it all the way through the race (which is a achievement in it self).


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Stockholm has plenty of buses that run on Ethanol derived from Rape Seed. Pity the exhaust stinks to high heaven, although to be fair it dissipates very fast, and it's not as "toxic smelling" as diesel.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

the stench of kerosene that pervades airports today might be replaced by a more welcoming odour

Who says the stench of kerosene isn't a welcoming odor to us aviation enthusiasts. I dunno about you, but I don't want to walk into an airport and smell egg foo yung mix 727, or shrimp fried plane.


User currently offlineBeefer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Soydiesel is becoming much more widely used in the U.S.

We use a 5% blend in the Diesel fuel which we use on our farm. It does cost a few more cents a gallon, but it is also easier on the engine because it has a higher lubricity than plain Diesel.

As stated above, Kerosene and Jet A are quite similar to Diesel fuel, so it shouldn't really be too hard to make it work.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's just hope it doesn't add to the cost of fuel like Ethanol does!

Are you being serious with that statement? Where I live fuel with 10% ethanol is .02 per gallon cheaper than regular unleaded. Fuel with 85% ethanol (called E-85 fuel) is .20 per gallon cheaper than regular unleaded. Don't believe the propaganda from the big oil companies.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Yes, but is it genetically modified soya ? If so, we can't possibly allow it !

P.S. I'm kidding ! I wouldn't eat GM soya, but I don't mind fueling planes with it.

[Edited 2004-03-25 18:38:39]

User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2198 times:

Biofuels have been successfully used in turbine engines since the sixties. They are however expensive and have not been endorsed by the FAA at this time. If the EPA were to mandate Biodiesel production ( I am not saying that they should yet) then we might see the costs come down rapidly. If, as predicted by biofuel advocates, they can get the costs to a level below current fuels, you might see the airlines take a good hard look at these fuels.

Just so you know my experience with Biodiesel is that, in my truck with NO modifications, I have run biodiesel and it gave me a mileage increase of 15%. Interesting eh?



"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2162 times:

And then there are the ethical questions on Bio-fuels.

Is it right to use a food source as a fuel source when people on this planet don't have enough to eat?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3439 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2123 times:

they've been running it here in test cells once in a while. makes the whole place smell like a fast food fryer.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

While it might make good debate the fact is that biofuel doesn't require food sources to be produced. Canola which is an excellent plant for this process is basically only produced for oil right now. It can be genetically engineered to grow just about anywhere. Growing Canola for such a project might in fact decrease world hunger as third world countries could grow it quite efficiently in genetically modified form.

As far as running it in turbines you must remember that the gas turbine is actually a rather simple design. So simple that it took quite some time to be able to actually get increases in efficiency from it. The basic engine is so simple that it will in fact run on any liquid or gaseous fuel you can put in it.

I have even seen a turbine burning coal dust. Ok it fouled the engine badly and was terribly inefficient. Oh and belched more pollution than you have ever seen LOL.

All of this is a rather moot point right now though as almost all alternative energy resource money is being poured into Hydrogen.



"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

What 727 says is soo right. Jet engines are the most versatile out there. They'll run on anything that combusts. It won't necessarily be clean, pretty, efficient, or maintenance-friendly, but it will run.

User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

I've been running my stock Diesel car on bio fuels (PME is the correct term) for the recent years, and not encountered any problem in well over 150,000 miles. I can still go almost 150mph  Big thumbs up

SailorOrion


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1878 times:

Even if Canola is not a major food source, we could still see bio-fuel crops displacing food crops in the field.

Much like in many staving countries where you see drug crops replacing food crops.

The Afghan poppy fields being the latest example. The farmers there are choosing to grow the drug, rather then the lower value food.

Could we see situations where the fuel crop is more valuable then the food crop?

[Edited 2004-03-26 09:35:21]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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