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Colombian Aviation Update.  
User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Air Canada will finally start the Toronto-BOG-Toronto route.
Service to Bogota will begin June 16 with flights
leaving Toronto: on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and
departing Bogota: Thursday, Saturday and Monday
Route will be operate with a Airbus A319
Source http://www.aviationdaily.com/avnow/

Does this mean that the AC A319 will stay over in the night waiting for a early morning depart to Toronto?


Also according to Source http://www.aviationdaily.com/avnow/

India's Air Deccan has been looking to Latin America and Colombia particular, to find qualified pilots and mechanics. This India?Colombia connection started in June 2003 when Aces folded and 1 of its unemployed ATR-pilots (Luis Fernando Gil) learned trough the web that there was need for ATR instructors in India....6 mix later he was working for Air Deccan.
A director of Air Deccan K.J Samual...was aware of the high technical and human qualifications of Colombian Pilots so he decided to Visit Colombia personally. He spent a week in Colombia interviewing 25 pilots and 20 mechanics. They will soon join Air Deccan training corps.
Are they old ACES / AV employees?

Some news on Fenix:
La aerolínea Fénix, proyecto de 500 pilotos colombianos, pidió rutas a la Aerocivil
http://eltiempo.terra.com.co/economia/30demarzode2004/ARTICULO-WEB-_NOTA_INTERIOR-1569389.html


Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYULtoPEI From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

That's so great !!!
do you know the price of this route?

I'm a frequent flyer to Colombia and if AC really open this route sure i will try if is more cheaper of the route i take past time:
YMX-SDZ with TS
SDZ-BOG with SAM
BOG-PEI with AV

And i never fly with A319, that's can be cool

regard



PEI in Colombia!!!. [Canon T2i]
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Yes. It's been confirmed. Air Canada will fly this route. However, It's not such a small plane for the route? I do know the market it's not big enough in terms of demand, hence, an A 319 would fit perfectly the needs of the market, but what about the distance. For me this is very close to a long-haul flight and out of the range for an A-319. As far as I know Lima will start AC services on late November and it will have a 767. I cannot imagine more traffic from Canada in Lima than in Bogotá.



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Actually Aeronautica Civil (Colombian FAA) scheduled two hearings in order to decide new requests made by airlines; if you go to www.aerocivil.gov.co you will see which airlines and routes were requested (the list is toooo long to translate it) interesting airlines: CargoLux-Aerolineas Argentinas and a lot of cargo airlines; I still do not know how it went. I am waiting for news about it.

Juan
SKBO



User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Hello,

JuanR;
Where exactly @ www.aerocivil.gov.co you can find the which airlines and routes were requested as you mentioned?.... I'm sorry but I couldn't find it.
thanks in advance!

ACES320;
yes the A319 is small comparing to the B767 and I prefer to travel by 767's on larger routes... but her in Europe the A319 and A320 is used very often from the Netherlands and others on routes to north Africa, tenerife and other island of Spain. I also hope that AC will change their A319 into their 767's for the BOG route, but I think that Lima has a strong position in the region (Colombia, Ecuador and Peru) or I'm I wrong. They're planning to modern up their int airport.




Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Wimpycol I think BOG is the airport with most traffic in terms of passengers in the Andean region. That's why I still do not understand a 767 to Lima and A-319 to Bogotá. In the long term El Dorado also has a well defined development strategy until 2005 with new terminals and a new short runway for regional flights.
It would be nice to see another A-340 in BOG (beside AF and IB) instead of the 767 or the A 319. In terms of range I just confirmed that the A 319 could do well in this route without a stopover.
http://www.airbus.com/product/a319_performance.asp



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Airbus A319 is a perfect plane for a Toronto-Bogotá.The A-319's reach is,just, unbelievable...but...can be the height of Bogotá maybe a handicap for a full-weight in takeoff???
ACES320:Lima is very far away from Canada for a A-319.It's necessary a 767.


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Wimpicol:

When you open the aerocivil page a pop-up in a new window appear and it leads you to the two documents with the "orden del dia" of the hearings.

I do nol like that AR requested the route: EZE-CCS-BOG-EZE I would like to see the airline operating the EZE-BOG-LAX-BOG-EZE route!!!

I am waiting for the news!!!

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2559 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

I have checked the travelocity website and AR appears as having the EZE-BOG-CCS-BOG-EZE flights from next month. So clearly they are just taking for granted that Aerocivil will approve the route (and why wouldn't they?). It appears as being operated with an A310 3 times a week.

Air Madrid is already selling tickets for their MAD-BOG-CTG-MAD flights from 1st June. These will operate (triangularly) twice weekly on Tuesdays and Fridays.

I am waiting to see what times the AC Toronto-Bogotá fights will be, and whether they'll be any chance of connecting from London. This flight does not appear reservation systems yet. I guess they are waiting for Aerocivil's public audience formal approval.




User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

The AC service is a great addition to BOG. Great addition for a great place, Colombia that is. Hopefully some other airlines will set up shop in BOG, MDE, or CTG, and expand the market.


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

The weird thing is that the AC case was not to be discussed in the March 24-29th sessions;

By the way, AR requested the route EZE-CCS-BOG-EZE to be operated not only by A310s but also by MD80s (I would really love to see the A310 but the MD80 is tooo boring, plenty of them already in BOG.

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2559 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Juanr,
looking at the public hearing agenda on Aerocivil's website, I see that AR has applied for both options: EZE-BOG-CCS and EZE-CCS-BOG. However, it is the former that appears on reservation systems.

Since there is no bilateral agreement between Colombia and Canada yet, I guess that this needs to be signed before commercial flights between the two countries can even be discussed in a public audience. It may be that signing such an agreement would grant AC flight rights automatically.


User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Hola Juan

thanks for the info on http://www.aerocivil.gov.co!
very interesting news that these 2 doc. show us http://www.aerocivil.gov.co/documentos/ORDEN_DEL_DIA_SESION_29.doc.
I didn't knew that MartinAir also has rights to serve the BOG-AMS route with their 747-200. When was the last time that they did this? I only see MD-11's in BOG as well in Rionegro.

And why do you wish to see AR operating the EZE-BOG-LAX-BOG-ZE route?
Willing to fly with them BOG-LAX in the near future?

Saludos
Willem Alberto



Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

FRESH FROM AR...


Got this info from a good friend of mine who's close to AR.

Service will be on a A310-300, 4 times a week
2 times: EZE-BOG-CCS-EZE
2 times: EZE-CCS-BOG-EZE

EZE-BOG-CCS-EZE:
Will be AR 1368 on (3)Thursday and (6)Friday starting 2 June-23 June.
EZE 12.30pm --> BOG 16.30pm
BOG 17.45pm --> CCS 20.35pm
CCS 21.50pm --> EZE 05.50am (next day)

EZE-CCS-BOG-EZE
Will be AR 1366 on (1)Sunday and (4)Wednesday starting 3 June
EZE 12.30pm --> CCS 18.22pm
CCS 19.37pm --> BOG 20.37pm
BOG 21.52pm --> EZE 06.02am (next day)

Nice to see AR in BOG at daylight!! VG only arrives in BOG in the evening.
Please... I hope to see some pics @ A.net of an AR A310 in BOG next June! And I can't wait to see it myself!
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel cano alva



Saludos
Willem Alberto



Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Juan,
For the time being AR will only start the BOG service with an A310.
Lima and CCS are planned with A310's and MD-80. So finally 4 days a week less boring with an A310 of AR and a318 of AC.
A friend of mine in BOG told me that Aerocontinente is using a mix of planes to BOG: 727/767's and 757's so that's nice I think but yes the same stuff like Colombian carriers.


ACES320;
Thanks for the link on the A319 range. I didn't knew that it had a huge range, even bigger then the A320. Yes it would be nicer to see another widebody A340 in BOG comparing to the A319 and all 767's of AV and others. But I think at this moment it all depends on numbers of pax and distance. The 767 is still strong at this point. AC and other American carriers are using their 767's from north to south america. Even LAN use their 767's frequently on this routes and their a340's to Europe. IB and AF has 747's but no 767's for the BOG route so the A340 is cheaper..but I think when they had the 767's they would use it right now. KLM also changed their routes to SA with 767's...CCS and Aruba/Curacao. I think the political and economic positions in Colombia/Venezuela region was not good for the aviation industry over the last 2 years. But I think this will change. And we now see the beginning of it. New routes are planned by Colombian and foreign carriers.
Ok at this point it's a little bit boring to see a lot of the same planes but AF and Alitalia are considering to come back to Colombia. And I think that BA will change (one of the first) their equipment (767-into 777) to BOG in the near future... 1-2 years from now. They even consider (from what I've heard of BA staff) to plan and restart the LHR-BOG-LHR route without the stop in CCS. All depends on the Colombian economy and the situation where Colombia is for many years now.

yes your right on the bilateral agreement between Colombia and Canada.
Without this their will not be any flights. Is their an bilateral agreement then the Aerocivil must approve the flights.
I was wondering about the bilateral agreements between Colombia and the UK/ France/Germany and Italy. Are they still the same (Germany /Italy)? And the slots that AV had?? That must be difficult for LHR if they consider to fly the BOG-LHR-BOG route again. I know they kept their slots for a long time until 2 years ago, when they sold them to BA who changed LGW for LHR to go to BOG.




Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2952 times:


It was also discussed in another thread that Avianca will downgrade its BOG-EZE-BOG service to only 3x weekly; and will code-share with AR the other four days of the week. The AV flights, nonetheless, remain operated by 767 aircraft.


BTW, three new carriers for BOG: Air Canada, Air Madrid and Aerolineas Argentinas. Where the hell are they going to cram their check-in counters. As I see it, there's simply no more space in the general hall in BOG. Can anybody give details on this?


SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2942 times:


Summa767,

Recently, it was stated by another user in a different thread, that these new latinamerican services that AC was adding to their network were going to be perfectly coordinated in order to allow connections for passengers comming from Europe, and heading to South America. That said, the AC flight to BOG is expected to leave YYZ in around 16:00 and arrive to BOG in the late evening. The return flight will depart BOG around 9:00 the day after, and arrive to YYZ precisely when the Europe flights begin to depart.

Plus, remember that AC has more than one daily flight on the YYZ-LHR-YYZ route, so I guess that at least one of them will be able to arrive in time to Toronto before the South America flights leave.

___________

Anyway, I still believe that BOG remains undeserved with just an A319 while LIM will get 763 !. I expect that the BOG flight eventually gets upgraded to a 762 at least.


SOUTHAMERICA



User currently offlineSoAmSky From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

"It was also discussed in another thread that Avianca will downgrade its BOG-EZE-BOG service to only 3x weekly; and will code-share with AR the other four days of the week."

What is going on??

I read somewhere traffic from BOG to EZE has increased due to a booming in tourism in Argentina. How is it, then, that AV is downgrading? I'm not seeing the picture here or what?



Soar the blue of the South American Sky
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

A little corrections for Wimpycol.

Ok at this point it's a little bit boring to see a lot of the same planes but AF and Alitalia are considering to come back to Colombia.

AF already operates to Colombia. It's 4 times a week. I think you know it ups  Nuts.

Second, Flight attendants and staff beg for a 777 in the LHR-CCS-BOG route.

My Third time in less than a year in this route, 26th Feb 2004. Just 5 passenger boarding in CCS traveling to Heathrow in an already cramped 767 arriving from Bogotá. Moreover a delay of more than two hours due to "security issues" in Venezuela (Strikes, referendum and stuff). Does it make sense for profits? And bear in mind that BA use 3 different crews during the trip ( LHR-CCS ; CCS-BOG-CCS ; CCS-LHR). Rod Eddington must be crazy.

You are right Wimpycol. Avianca AV sold away its slots at Heathrow and it was a Bargain. The funds were used to alleviate some debt burden. Wished Avianca fly again to Heathrow ( I really doubt it), it would be almost impossible. It's difficult for members of OneWorld or Star Alliance to get some slots there, now you imagine a struggling Latin American carrier.

My pleasure to provide the link Wimpycol, cheers.





LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Southamerica

thanks for the AC info.
I was wondering how many Europeans and others would choose for flying AC to BOG. I think AV, BA, AF, and IB has good service in terms of traveling hours from your departure city to destination in Colombia or Europe. I think that AC leaves BOG to early and will arrive in Europe the same time (or even a bit later) then the other carriers who leave BOG at the end of the day. But if AC have some great fares I would consider to fly with them the AMS-BOG route. For now its BA or AF and AV if they ever will fly again to LHR or CDG.



Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineWimpycol From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 484 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Hello ACES320

Thanks for your info.
Yes about AF I already know it... I traveled them to BOG 3 years ago.
My fault.... I was pointing to LH who's considering to fly to BOG again.

yes I AV can't be seen anymore in LHR as you mentioned. But for me the service was great from AMS-LHR (BMI) and then with AV to BOG. And especially when you love to fly AV. They had great service, personally I didn't had any problems with them.

For the last 2 years I travel with BA (777 and 767 from AMS to BOG. Yes it's very crazy the 3 crew changes. Absurd! Ok in business you can travel it easy but economy is crampy especially for you handluggage (was put away in first-class!!)...I really miss their 777 service and thedirectly LGW-BOG service with their 747... the planes were FULL. Hope to see BA doing this again in the near future!

Willem Alberto




Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2850 times:

SoAmSky:

Tourism is booming in Argentina, with record numbers for the 2003-4 "temporada", but if you are wondering why AV is cutting back their frequencies, let me tell you they are not the only ones.
BA was always in a state of flux with its flights to EZE, operating 6 or 7 weekly frequencies and dropping to 3 during the winter. They always flew the 744 to EZE non-stop. As of 2001, they began operating the 777 (1.5-2 hours slower), and later, they introduced a silly fuel stop at GRU. In spite of the tourist boom, BA continued to fly 777s to EZE just 3 times a week and stopping at GRU. I get the impression Rod Eddington just doesn't care too much about South America. He even axed LIM and SCL! And I doubt he even noticed the boom in Argentina, even though IB added a 2nd daily frequency to EZE to cope with record demand.
For those of you in BOG, you won't be seeing this...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Kelley
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM



but will be seeing this...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marcelo Fouquet De Biasi
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Juan Pablo Marini



Looks a little better IMHO!

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2840 times:

I hope more and more international carriers start Colombian service. The "terrorist" situation there is vastly overrated, but as a result, it scares people (and airlines) away. Hopefully that misunderstanding will be resolved soon, and a greater array of airlines will come. Great news with the three new carriers coming though.

-Copa


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2559 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

I find it difficult to believe that AV will cut flights on its EZE route. It has one of the highest load factors in its network. Sometimes additional flights are also laid on (perhaps charter services). For instance the day before yesterday, and tonight there are actually two flights leaving BOG for EZE. You can check on the Summa website.

User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2817 times:


Summa767 and SoAmSky,


Well, that's why I made the clarification at the beginning of my previous post in reply # 15.

I got the information about AV downgrading the EZE service and code-sharing with AR from another thread here in this forum, not long ago, just can't remember where or who was the info posted by. No press releases so far. So nothing is for certain until somebody confirms.

Anyway, I won't argue that it would really be strange to see that measure taking place.


SOUTHAMERICA



25 Wimpycol : Hello Copaair737 Yes I also hope to see more carriers flying to Colombia and not only to BOG. I know that a lot of Colombians/ Europeans want to have
26 Post contains links and images ACES320 : Follow this link for Master Plan ElDorado 2030. http://www.aerocivil.gov.co/plan%20maestro/index.htm There is also a nice 3D animation about the expan
27 Post contains links and images Wimpycol : ACES320 Thanks for the links to the Master Plan El Dorado 2025. This Master Plan El Dorado 2025 is a stable plan with a good vision. I can't wait to s
28 Copaair737 : Wow. That new terminal design looks great. BTW, whatever happened to AV's planned CTG-MAD service? I haven't heard anything lately about it. With the
29 Summa767 : Copaair737, The Puente Aereo will be torn down eventually to give way to a bigger and better domestic concourse. AV's MAD-CTG flights will be operated
30 Juanr : According to national newspaper "El Tiempo", on monday april 5th, Aerocivil will decide the requests for routes made by airlines and discussed on hear
31 Argentina : These are the Schedules published by AR AR 1366 1 - - 4 - - - 03-Jun 12:30 EZE CCS 18:22 ---------------------------------------- 19:37 CCS BOG 20:37
32 Post contains links ACES320 : WimpyCoL I suggest to start a new tread on this master plan 2025. There are lot of things to discuss that are not related anymore to this tread and it
33 SOUTHAMERICA : Copaair737, Expanding Summa767's info about the CTG-MAD flights, they were launched in early march this year with the arrival to Cartagena of the fir
34 Post contains links SOUTHAMERICA : As a side note... Avianca announced that they are completely ready to serve efficiently all routes and the high demand generated on the Holy Week (Ea
35 Wimpycol : Hello Argentina / Robert. Thanks for the info on AR. I also get it by your friend Sebastian(Lima) who's in the Netherlands at the moment. Thanks a lot
36 Post contains links Wimpycol : Nice to see Air Madrid flying to Colombia starting next summer! some info on the MAD-BOG route http://www.airmadrid.com/destinos_madbog.html So there
37 Wimpycol : ACES320 So far I can say that deadlines have not been accomplished as by now some facilities should have been completed. My last time in BOG was last
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