DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 848 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4305 times:
I seriously doubt it. They have shown a preference for the 777NG in the form of a modest 777-300ER order, which share the GE90 powerplant with their 777-200ER. If Air France were to buy an Ultra-Long Range (ULR) aircraft it would most definitly be the 777-200LR.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 20466 posts, RR: 56 Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4079 times:
Nope, there aren't really. CDG is in the same position as London - it can reach almost every point on the globe that it has a market for, with the exception of Australia/New Zealand, nonstop. And even the 773LR couldn't make it to Australia from Paris without penalties.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
FLYSSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3463 times:
As mentionned above, AF has no intention to buy the A345.
AF is very pleased with the B772 and even studies the possibility to get rid of its A343 in a medium term to replace them by additionnal B772ER and A332.
There is no interesting destination for AF that its actual fleet can't reach nonstop, except Australia & Tahiti but there is also no aircraft actually on the market that could fly nonstop with no restrictions CDG-SYD or CDG-PPT or CDG-NOU. Add to this the engine problem (A345 are powered only by RR engines and AF's fleet is essencially GE/SNECMA engines). So no need for the A345.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3284 times:
even studies the possibility to get rid of its A343 in a medium term to replace them by additionnal B772ER and A332.
While getting rid of those A343s is thankfully an eventual inevitability.... would be interesting to see if they threw a few A333 for USA East Coast and Africa in there. Doubt it, but still would be nice
FLYSSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3196 times:
The A333 and A343 are the same a/c, in term of capacity.
AF had already the oportunity to operate the A333 when merging with Air Inter in 1997 (IT was operating already 4 aircraft and had options on several planes), but AF decided finally to sell the planes (to Aer Lingus).
The A332 suits much better AF's needs, especially on the African network, to boost frequencies, it also has a great range. It's the perfect complement of the B772ER that is far more interesting to operate (for AF) than the A343. But AF operates 22 A343, and you can't replace 22 a/c like this in 6 months ! (moreover they are not very "old" ).
So, I really don't think we'll ever see an AF A333...
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 71 Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3151 times:
Solnabo, as FLYSSC also stated, AF's fleet consists of planes using GE/Snecma engines, and they've been sticking to that quite consequently (with the possible exception of Concorde).
If I recall correctly, Airbus had originally planned to offer the A318 only with the PW engine, but AF would not order it with that, but only with the CFMs.
So I guess that AF will not order anything with RRs (or PWs) under the wing, though I'm not sure if they've ever explicitly said this - but in this case, I'd say that the actions speak about as louds as words.
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 71 Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3105 times:
Horus, AC probably operates both types with the same reasoning that CX does: both aircraft have different characteristics that make them suitable for different types of routes (even though, admittedly, AC flies the A340s to Europe just as much as they fly the A330s over here - but the general idea probably remains valid - while CX flies the A333 on regional routes and the A343s on long hauls...).
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3065 times:
The A345 is not in Air Frances future, not is the 777LR, for the reasons stated above.
Re the A333s that AF inherited from Air Inter long ago, those aircraft were a whole different animal from the improved versions of the A333 available today - the new aircraft have a lot more range and versatility. The ex-Air Inter A333 ended up with AerLingus and Sabena: adequate for transatlantic service to the US east coast and, in SN's case, to some cities in Africa, but that was the limit.
It will be interesting to see what AF decides re its A343 fleet: AF, unlike many other carriers, consider the 777 and A343 different aircraft for different missions so it would be a change in thinking if the A343 fleet was replaced with a mix of the 777 and A332.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3506 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2963 times:
No I don't think Air France will order A340-500/600, one reason I can think of is the A340-500/600 isn't powered with GE or CFM engines. That is the main reason why they chose the B777-300ER over the A340-500/600, don't forget that the B777-300ER is offered only with GE power plant. Air France Industries has decided it would work only on engines made wholly or at least partially by GE. The A380 will be powered by Engine Alliance GP, a new joint venture between GE and PW.
Have you asked yourself why Air France never had 757's? I think it's because it was never offered with GE or CFM power plants.
Back in the 60's, they went for the 707 and the Caravelle, evengthough those used to be offered only with PW power plants, because those were at that time the only jets available that would suit best Air France's system.
Back in the 70's and early 80's, they went for the 727 and the 737-200 eventhough those used to be offered only with PW power plants, because they needed short and medium haul aircraft to cover their European and North African network and at that time the A320 family wasn't available. Neither was the B737-300/400/500.
In 1970, they went for the 747-100, which was also offered only with PW power plant, because they needed like all other major international airlines a widebody aircraft to cover intercontinental flights and it was then the only widebody aircraft available on the civilian aviation market when they ordered it.
FLYSSC, you have good knowledge and you seem to be a real source of info on Air France, but I would like to point out that the Classic 747's (200 and 300 Series) are likely to be retired before the A340's are, because they are older (older in age and more cycles) and because they still require a third cockpit crew member which the A340 doesn't require. However you're right about the fact that the A340's are next to go, and be replaced with a mixture of A330's and B777's. And don't forget that Air France has now two variants of the 777, the 200ER and the 300ER.
FLYSSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2833 times:
Of course the B742/743 will be retired before the A340 ! they are planned to retire by 2006/2007. As I mentionned many times before, they will be replaced on the "Sun/Leisure" destinations by the B744, while the B744 being itself replaced on its network by the B773ER and the A380.
The first A343 flew for AF in March 1993...only 11 years ago ! and AF uses 22 aircrafts of this type by now, so they will not be retired soon... even if AF would like to do so !
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3506 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2570 times:
There was not long ago a press release in yahoo that Air France was not in talks with Boeing about the future 7E7 aircraft, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll never buy it. They won't order the aircraft as launch customer because they don't need it now or in the near future but I'm sure they are thinking of it as a future addition to the fleet, perhaps for the mid 2010's. They probably don't want to announce yet to the public that they are considering it for long thin routes. Why would the media announce something like "Air France not in talks with Boeing about the 7E7", if Air France was not looking at it?
Back in the early 1990's when Boeing formally launched the 777 with initial orders coming from United and ANA, nobody knew Air France would order those afterwards.
FLYSSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2531 times:
I doubt AF would add another aircraft type to its fleet, as they are trying to rationalize it to the maximum...
Air France strategy is to develop its HUB at CDG. AF doesn't offer ANY long-haul flight from any other French city ( even the big cities like Lyon, Nice or Marseille ) which could justify a 7E7 order...
So for the moment, the A332 will offer the right capacity (40 Business / 179 Eco ) to AF on the thin routes with less traffic from CDG.