Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will AF Buy A340-500?  
User currently offlineHenpol747 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 588 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4744 times:


I have a question for you guys, is AF planning to acquire the A345?

 Confused


Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4685 times:

I'd say the simple answer to that is: no.

They don't operate planes with RR engines, and as long as Airbus doesn't offer anything else on the A345, there's really little to no chance that they'll get some.

If AF really had demand for an ultra-long-haul aircraft at the moment, they'd most likely go for the 777LR - but I don't think that AF needs anything in that category at the moment.

Happy contrails,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 960 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

I seriously doubt it. They have shown a preference for the 777NG in the form of a modest 777-300ER order, which share the GE90 powerplant with their 777-200ER. If Air France were to buy an Ultra-Long Range (ULR) aircraft it would most definitly be the 777-200LR.

Regards,
DFW


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

AF to buy 15 B772LR.......*LOL*

Michael//SE (April 1st soon)



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineHenpol747 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Thanks a lot for the info!!  Big thumbs up


Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

I don't think there are any many routes from Europe that require the superlong range of the A345/772LR.

User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21511 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Nope, there aren't really. CDG is in the same position as London - it can reach almost every point on the globe that it has a market for, with the exception of Australia/New Zealand, nonstop. And even the 773LR couldn't make it to Australia from Paris without penalties.


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

I respect AF for maintaining a healthy Airbus & Boeing balance. But I've heard no news of them ordering A345s, although I know it can serve Paris-Papeete direct, which I'm not sure the 773ER can.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

which I'm not sure the 773ER can.

It cannot.

TN doesnt feel that the A345 can either, to the point of satisfying the airline's expectant specs.


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

LVZXV,

As mentionned above, AF has no intention to buy the A345.
AF is very pleased with the B772 and even studies the possibility to get rid of its A343 in a medium term to replace them by additionnal B772ER and A332.

There is no interesting destination for AF that its actual fleet can't reach nonstop, except Australia & Tahiti but there is also no aircraft actually on the market that could fly nonstop with no restrictions CDG-SYD or CDG-PPT or CDG-NOU. Add to this the engine problem (A345 are powered only by RR engines and AF's fleet is essencially GE/SNECMA engines). So no need for the A345.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

even studies the possibility to get rid of its A343 in a medium term to replace them by additionnal B772ER and A332.

While getting rid of those A343s is thankfully an eventual inevitability.... would be interesting to see if they threw a few A333 for USA East Coast and Africa in there. Doubt it, but still would be nice  Smile


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

Leskova:
Are you sure about that AF dont buy a/c with RR engines??
Rumour or fact? If its true thats crazy......  Nuts

Michael//SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

The A333 and A343 are the same a/c, in term of capacity.

AF had already the oportunity to operate the A333 when merging with Air Inter in 1997 (IT was operating already 4 aircraft and had options on several planes), but AF decided finally to sell the planes (to Aer Lingus).

The A332 suits much better AF's needs, especially on the African network, to boost frequencies, it also has a great range. It's the perfect complement of the B772ER that is far more interesting to operate (for AF) than the A343. But AF operates 22 A343, and you can't replace 22 a/c like this in 6 months ! (moreover they are not very "old" ).

So, I really don't think we'll ever see an AF A333...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Remi Dallot



User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Solnabo, as FLYSSC also stated, AF's fleet consists of planes using GE/Snecma engines, and they've been sticking to that quite consequently (with the possible exception of Concorde).

If I recall correctly, Airbus had originally planned to offer the A318 only with the PW engine, but AF would not order it with that, but only with the CFMs.

So I guess that AF will not order anything with RRs (or PWs) under the wing, though I'm not sure if they've ever explicitly said this - but in this case, I'd say that the actions speak about as louds as words.

Happy contrails,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

I agree, I see AF's long haul fleet centre around the A380, B744 (passenger and freighter), B777 and the A332.

I've always wandered why AC operates both the A333 and A343



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Horus, AC probably operates both types with the same reasoning that CX does: both aircraft have different characteristics that make them suitable for different types of routes (even though, admittedly, AC flies the A340s to Europe just as much as they fly the A330s over here - but the general idea probably remains valid - while CX flies the A333 on regional routes and the A343s on long hauls...).

Happy contrails,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

The A345 is not in Air Frances future, not is the 777LR, for the reasons stated above.

Re the A333s that AF inherited from Air Inter long ago, those aircraft were a whole different animal from the improved versions of the A333 available today - the new aircraft have a lot more range and versatility. The ex-Air Inter A333 ended up with AerLingus and Sabena: adequate for transatlantic service to the US east coast and, in SN's case, to some cities in Africa, but that was the limit.

It will be interesting to see what AF decides re its A343 fleet: AF, unlike many other carriers, consider the 777 and A343 different aircraft for different missions so it would be a change in thinking if the A343 fleet was replaced with a mix of the 777 and A332.


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Air France is seeking to rationalize its fleet and spares as maximum as possible :

- on Short/Medium Haul : 2 a/c types now : B735 & A318/19/20/21 (all powered by GE/SNECMA) and by 2006 only one type : the A320 family.

Leskova is right : AF clearly said to Airbus they would not buy the A318 if it was only proposed with the PW engines.

On long-haul : B744 - B742/743 - B777 - A343 - A332 - all powered by GE/SNECMA with the purpose of an even more rationalized fleet by 2007/2008 : - B744 - B777 - and - A380 - A332 -


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3735 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3337 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

No I don't think Air France will order A340-500/600, one reason I can think of is the A340-500/600 isn't powered with GE or CFM engines. That is the main reason why they chose the B777-300ER over the A340-500/600, don't forget that the B777-300ER is offered only with GE power plant. Air France Industries has decided it would work only on engines made wholly or at least partially by GE. The A380 will be powered by Engine Alliance GP, a new joint venture between GE and PW.

Have you asked yourself why Air France never had 757's? I think it's because it was never offered with GE or CFM power plants.

Back in the 60's, they went for the 707 and the Caravelle, evengthough those used to be offered only with PW power plants, because those were at that time the only jets available that would suit best Air France's system.

Back in the 70's and early 80's, they went for the 727 and the 737-200 eventhough those used to be offered only with PW power plants, because they needed short and medium haul aircraft to cover their European and North African network and at that time the A320 family wasn't available. Neither was the B737-300/400/500.
In 1970, they went for the 747-100, which was also offered only with PW power plant, because they needed like all other major international airlines a widebody aircraft to cover intercontinental flights and it was then the only widebody aircraft available on the civilian aviation market when they ordered it.

FLYSSC, you have good knowledge and you seem to be a real source of info on Air France, but I would like to point out that the Classic 747's (200 and 300 Series) are likely to be retired before the A340's are, because they are older (older in age and more cycles) and because they still require a third cockpit crew member which the A340 doesn't require. However you're right about the fact that the A340's are next to go, and be replaced with a mixture of A330's and B777's. And don't forget that Air France has now two variants of the 777, the 200ER and the 300ER.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3322 times:

AF's fleet consists of planes using GE/Snecma engines, and they've been sticking to that quite consequently (with the possible exception of Concorde)

Concorde followed their trend as well. Though RR was the primary Olyumpus 593 producer, Snecma was also a major contributor.

http://www.concordesst.com/powerplant.html


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

American 767,

Of course the B742/743 will be retired before the A340 ! they are planned to retire by 2006/2007. As I mentionned many times before, they will be replaced on the "Sun/Leisure" destinations by the B744, while the B744 being itself replaced on its network by the B773ER and the A380.

The first A343 flew for AF in March 1993...only 11 years ago ! and AF uses 22 aircrafts of this type by now, so they will not be retired soon... even if AF would like to do so !


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

A332 not withstanding... would be interesting to see how AF reacts to the 7E7

User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3735 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2944 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

There was not long ago a press release in yahoo that Air France was not in talks with Boeing about the future 7E7 aircraft, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll never buy it. They won't order the aircraft as launch customer because they don't need it now or in the near future but I'm sure they are thinking of it as a future addition to the fleet, perhaps for the mid 2010's. They probably don't want to announce yet to the public that they are considering it for long thin routes. Why would the media announce something like "Air France not in talks with Boeing about the 7E7", if Air France was not looking at it?
Back in the early 1990's when Boeing formally launched the 777 with initial orders coming from United and ANA, nobody knew Air France would order those afterwards.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

I doubt AF would add another aircraft type to its fleet, as they are trying to rationalize it to the maximum...

Air France strategy is to develop its HUB at CDG. AF doesn't offer ANY long-haul flight from any other French city ( even the big cities like Lyon, Nice or Marseille ) which could justify a 7E7 order...

So for the moment, the A332 will offer the right capacity (40 Business / 179 Eco ) to AF on the thin routes with less traffic from CDG.

We'll see in 10 or 15 years....


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

That brings up another point.... is the 55m pax cap still applicable to CDG?

25 AirxLiban : Have you asked yourself why Air France never had 757's? I think it's because it was never offered with GE or CFM power plants. Really, was it just RR
26 Anxebla : About AF's 343.... Are they in leasing/hire or bought by AF?
27 Henpol747 : AirxLiban: you just got it wright, the question is: should the 757 had been provided with GE´s or CFM´s, would AF have bought it? I´m sure FLYSSC c
28 FLYSSC : I am not sure that AF didn't choose the 757 just because of the engines : In a recent past, AF was operating some a/c powered by PW engines also (B741
29 ConcordeBoy : Reply #24, do you know the answer?
30 Post contains images FLYSSC : What is exactely your question concerning CDG ? and what is the link with the 7E7 ? Sorry, but I don't understand...
31 ConcordeBoy : Wasnt that difficult of a post, but... Up until 2002 (that's when last I followed the goings-on), CDG was still subject to an agreement to cap its pax
32 FLYSSC : The idea of a third "Parisian Airport", further north of Paris has been officially abandoned by the Government. Various solutions are possible to exte
33 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Nice info, but doesnt do a thing to answer my question
34 Donder10 : Flyssc, any chance you could provide a copy of the AF African network from 2000,before SN went under,please?
35 Gigneil : As has been well mentioned, the 757 was available with the CF6-32 but nobody significant took up the option. N
36 Tom_eddf : The engines make up for quite a significant portion of the aircrafts value and (including spares) can even exceed the value of the rest of the airfram
37 FLYSSC : Donder 10, AF didn't add new destinations on its African network after SN (and SR) went down. Only Frequencies were added ( CKY, OUA, BKO etc...) or b
38 Horus : FLYSSC That's true I remember reading that they pulled all the A310s, A300s and 767s out of Africa replacing them with A330s, A340s and 777s.
39 Post contains images FLYSSC : Horus, The A310 & B767 were serving almost exclusively African/Middle East destinations until they were retired in 2002/2003 *. The A300 fitted with 3
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Will Qantas Buy A340-500 Or -600s? posted Sun Jun 27 1999 05:11:33 by 777rules
Will AF Replace A340/300 Destroyed In Toronto? posted Wed Aug 17 2005 22:25:44 by Rpaillard
Qantas Offered 20% Discount To Buy A340-500's posted Wed May 3 2000 00:37:10 by CPAir 4 life
Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's? posted Sat Jan 1 2005 18:09:13 by Vsa340600
Will Iberia Buy The A340-500? posted Sat May 25 2002 15:22:14 by Dennys
Who Will Take The Dumped A340-500/600s? posted Thu Oct 13 2005 06:49:37 by Kaitak744
The A340-500...will It Be Profitable For Airlines? posted Sun Mar 7 2004 07:13:38 by CPDC10-30
How Many Airlines Will Operate A340-500 And -600? posted Fri Oct 18 2002 23:51:59 by Hkniceguy
Who Will Get The First A340-500? posted Wed Jul 31 2002 16:20:44 by Andie007
How Soon Will AC's A340-500/600s Enter Service? posted Mon Jun 26 2000 23:43:17 by Samurai 777